Guns in the toys... how sick can these individuals be?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

That used to be true. They have started selling them again recently.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Smith-Wesson-M-P-CO2-Pistol-Black/17133139

We haven’t “gone mad.” We’ve been mad since 1791.

I’m a strong supporter of the strictest gun-control measures, but I acknowledge that Walmart’s actions are both legal and constitutional.

Are you kidding me? This is huge news over here. People are absolutely horrified, and that includes people who are against gun control.

We are simply speculating about one aspect of the crime–how the gun might have gotten there. You should not take that as any indication that we think it’s no big deal. There’s no reason to re-state the obvious.
Mind Your Head - “Americans r dum, hur hur” is not the sort of attitude that engenders productive discussion of how the United States might learn from the examples provided by other countries.

42

Sadly enough, it does happen, sometimes even by policemen.

43

I did not intend to imply that or insult Americans. Those who think (and not just Americans) guns are a human right and who perpetuate the circle argument that “I have a gun to protect me from their gun” are frightening. Many of us in other countries cannot understand the logic or reasoning behind the importance of guns to many Americans. I was quite annoyed by the seemingly laid back attitude of some of the posters that this was probably a mistake, someone put it there and forgot it or whatever so not much to be upset about. That’s how it came across.

44

I think the most likely scenario, as others have pointed out, is that it was someone ditching a gun. While I do think a false flag attempt is a possibility, I think it’s extremely remote. Same with someone who was legally carrying and unholstering it, possible but extremely unlikely. Regardless of the reality and the motivations of the person who left it there, I think we should all be glad that nothing bad happened.

This is also why I’m of the opinion that it’s important to teach kids about weapons, just like we teach them any number of other things like drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, sex, whatever. Sure, I was raised with guns present in the household, my dad taught me gun safety rules at least as young as 5 or 6, and I think he kept them out of the house before he taught us that. As a result, had I come into that situation as at that age, I’m fairly certain I would have been able to quickly determine that it wasn’t a toy gun and I would have quickly notified someone. Even for people that are for much stricter gun control or even want them outright banned, I still think teaching your kids gun safety rules, particularly how to identify one and what to do with them should be something kids learn at a young age. After all, drugs are banned, tobacco and alcohol are illegal at that age, and we still teach kids about those and what to do as well.

If guns are going to be sold, where should they be sold?

Also, it differs from state to state. For instance, consider alcohol. In some states, hard liquor is sold in grocery stores, but some might find as a bad thing as it makes it too accessible to kids. Here in Virginia, hard liquor is only sold in state controlled stores, ABC stores, but beer and wine is sold in grocery stores. In other states, alcohol is more tightly controlled.

Similarly, here in Virginia, I believe Walmart and similar stores can only sell rifles and shot guns and if you want a hand gun, you need to go to a more strictly regulated gun retailer.

Obviously, if you think guns should be banned or much more tightly controlled, any situation in which guns are sold like that would seem odd, but it’s not like a random person can just walk into Walmart, buy a couple hand guns and automatic weapons, then go on a shooting rampage.

If carrying loaded weapons is going to be legal, why is carrying in a Target such a horrible thing?

Again, obviously if you think carrying is bad in general, then I get it, and I can get the sentiment behind not being against it in general, but maybe not liking carry in bars, schools, government buildings, or whatever. But if carry is legal, Target seems to be amongst the most generic places to be carrying, pretty much right up there with a grocery store, or some other place a random person is very likely to be running errands.

I think the key point to take from this story, while bizarre, is that it’s the exception, not the rule. That’s the whole reason this is getting reported in the first place.

Further, it’s getting traction because both sides of the gun debate have something at stake here. If this was a guy with an illegal gun ditching it, or a legal carrier being irresponsible, then the anti-gun crowd has reason to make a big deal out of this story and the potential risk for loss of life, particularly of kids, no less. Further, if it turns out to be a false flag attempt, they need to down play it and minimize the damage to their cause. And the pro-gun crowd has largely opposing motivation. If it was a legal gun owner, managing that damage, if it was an illegal gun owner, making sure this doesn’t become motivation to pass laws they oppose, and if it is a false flag attempt, it becomes ammunition (NPI) against their opponents.

Anyone that takes this story as sign that people are just leaving guns around in the toy sections of Target as a regular thing is just making an invalid extrapolation. Of course the plural of anecdote is not data, but even here in Virginia, where we love our guns, I’ve never seen a gun just lying around anywhere, nor have I heard a story from any friends or acquaintances to the same effect. It’s not uncommon that I see people open carrying, and I know several people who regularly carry concealed, and I’ve never experienced this.

So, yes, this is a bad situation, regardless of what your opinion is on guns, but it is definitely not remotely common.

45

You… um… you do realize that you’ve linked to an air pistol that fires BB-type projectiles, right?

46

LOL! No, I did not realize that.

As much as I feel a bit foolish, I’m glad I made the mistake, because it totally lays waste to Broomstick’s utterly ridiculous statement that anybody would be able to easily and identify a handgun.

47

I’m not stalwart defender of gun rights. I don’t own a gun and I’ve said on this board that I think the Second Amendment should be repealed.

But I also live in the real world. Guns are legal and people do own them and carry them. So I was offering an explanation as to how a person carrying a gun could accidentally leave it somewhere. I also said that doing so was stupid, unacceptable, and a crime - which should make clear that what I was giving was an explanation not an justification.

48

I don’t understand the issue some people have with Walmart selling guns. Guns are legal. Walmart is a store. Why shouldn’t Walmart sell guns?

49

Because I have no confidence in Walmart’s ability to properly manage a dairy case, let alone a gun department.

50

I would hope somewhere where staff are properly trained and all necessary safety measures are in place. I would also hope they weren’t selling shoes last week and collecting trolleys in the car park the week before.

I admit I don’t know much about guns so I don’t understand the difference. To my mind one is as deadly as the other. Is it because a hand gun can be more readily concealed and rifles are more associated with hunting?

I am not very familiar with Target stores so I assumed they are a price driven shop similar to Walmart. So I used it in the generic sense that someone could leave a gun lying around in a shop, any shop, bar, school or whatever. What I was most taken back by was the apparent excuses provided by earlier posters that seemed, at least to me, to be flippant. No one will ever convince me that guns are a good thing, in any situation. Gun = death - full stop.

Unfortunately, much of the news we get from America is concerning mass killings and people going on a rampage in schools, cinemas and so on. It seems the people who are most vocal and, of course, most often quoted are the pro-gun lobbyists. Yes it is biased but the picture that is painted by the media is one of a gun-mad people living in the wild west. Many people outside of the U.S have trouble understanding the fascination with guns and why it seems to be so ingrained in the American psyche.

51

Exactly. And I’ll add that the guy leaving money around the city is an asshat. Its just a matter of time before he incites a riot over people searching franticly for hidden money. Its “Fun and Games” now, but it will end up “Assault and Battery” sooner or later.

Now, Back to Gun Bashing! Or, whatever.

52

If a kid had picked it up and shot himself or someone else with it then the story would really be newsworthy. But we wouldn’t be able to discuss it because apparently talking about guns after people get killed is wrong somehow.

53

Please re-read what I said, which was that in your hand it’s fairly easy to distinguish a real gun from a toy because the real gun is heavier. You can not determine that from a picture. Also, anyone might be mistaken at a distance which would also apply to photographs.

Let’s play this game another way: if you have a picture of a wax fruit and a picture of a real fruit you may not be able to tell the difference but if you could pick both of them up and handle them you could probably figure out which is which pretty quickly.

Finally - a BB gun should still be treated as a gun. It’s less likely to be lethal but it still fires a projectile and can cause injuries, potentially even serious ones. Like the proverbial “you’ll put someone’s eye out with that!”. When I used to fire off BB guns I was told the same basic rules that apply to all guns: never point it at anyone or anything you don’t want to be shot and always assume it’s loaded. Screwing up with a BB gun isn’t as bad as screwing up with a Colt .45 but that’s no excuse for being careless.

54

Some people don’t think guns should be available to civilians or sold to civilians. I can understand their reasoning and their dislike even if I do not agree with it.

Yep, more or less.

“Long guns” - rifles, shotguns, and the like - are regulated differently and have difference licensing and ownership rules. For example, in my state it is legal to own a shotgun for home defense purposes without getting a permit. The length of a shotgun barrel is strictly regulated specifically to make them hard to conceal. Long guns have three basic purposes: hunting, home defense, and shooting. While it’s certainly possible for them to be used in a crime most uses are entirely legal.

Hand guns, though, are designed to shoot people and target practice. While I have known some people to use them for small game and vermin that’s not their primary purpose. A hand gun is for defending yourself against another human being (or, if you’re a bad guy, being used against another human being). They are easily concealed. They are more commonly used in crimes than long guns. Hence, they are more strictly regulated

(Note that the above applies to civilians. What the military and police do with guns has some differences).

It’s not that long guns aren’t dangerous. They certainly are! But it’s handguns that drive most of the gun crime, are more likely to be illegal, and due to ease of concealment are more likely to become a sudden threat.

I, too, found those statements rather appalling myself. “Oh, I forgot the gun lying there” is like saying “Oh, I forgot my car was in gear when I got out and that’s why it smashed into a wall”. Not acceptable. And I’m a supporter of gun rights.

Guns do not automatically equal death. They certainly are dangerous, though, even when used properly and legally for something like, say, target practice. Several years before he met me my spouse did accidentally shoot himself in the hand while practicing at a gun range despite being an extremely careful sort of person. Fortunately, the damage was minor and all he has is a small, barely visible scar. He got rid of his guns before we met. We’ve occasionally talked over whether or not we should get one but so far we haven’t felt we have a need that justifies one.

55

∴ Gun + full stop = death.

Rule #1 of gun safety is stay well away from punctuation. I knew a guy who made the mistake of making a dash with a gun in his hand. He got a bullet in the abdomen and ended up commatose with only a semicolon left. By the time he woke all his muscles were apostrophed.

56

By now I would expect the surveillance cameras to have identified who placed the gun there — either with casual deliberate stealth or agitated ditching — even if this is no help in discovering the person responsible.
If in the Big Bang Theory Leonard alarmed told Sheldon not to look up after discovering him chatting up a tiny girl, one may assume that children’s sections in stores are lousy with cameras. Hopefully.

57

Plus there’s most likely fingerprints on the gun and the ammunition.

58

And what if you don’t know how heavy a real gun is?

As hard as this may be for you to believe, many people in the United States have never touched or held a gun or seen one close up.

I was in my late 30s before I held a handgun for the first time, and many people I know have never done so. And one trip to the shooting range was not sufficient to render me able to identify weapons by either sight or touch.

59

There is apparently some difficulty in finding identifiable fingerprints on a hand gun.

Re: Heavier than toys.
When I was a kid, a friend of mine had a toy pistol given to him by his Mother’s boyfriend. It was a realistic plastic semi auto filled with metal, lead I thought. It was very cool because it looked and felt real.

60

In your case ( your, you, anyone that does not know or use something. Your statement just gives a very good case of why I think as I do on how much weight I will give your opinions on what is the correct thing to do , like safety deviceses, personal recognition etc. ) , you should never touch or make a judgement call about any gun in a real situation by your own admission.
But any comments about facts on gun handling, level of danger while not knowing what weapon it is nor the level of concern if some one is actually carrying one should be left off in a thread like this. IMO. Wither he should or not is an open debate but making statements is like never having driven a car but telling an trucker how to operate his 18 wheeler.