Besides, You and I have gotten off the debale, this is Health Care VS Gun rights. Not weather or not the US should have NHC. Guns are protected by the constitution healthcae is not, its that simple, read our constitution. We can argue weather or not is should be, but at this time it is not.
Yeah, just like the US government crushed the Iraqi insurgents years ago… :rolleyes:
If by our government, you are refering to our military, you are correct. They have the most awesome “war machine” on the planet. But remember, it comes down to the individual soldier. If told to turn aginst their own people, would they? No doubt, there are those who would, but I can only imagine that many of them would not. I hope that day never comes!!!
The government took a boatload of our money and we ended up with a nation full of slack-jawed morons anyway. So much for that plan…
AMEN!
No, not exactly. Back in the “good old days” of all fee-for-service insurance, it worked (more or less) like that.
However, these days, almost all insurances require the doctor to sign a contract stating that s/he will only receive the allowed amount. It can NOT be charged to the patient. The patient might pay some form of co-pay or a deductible, but that would be subtracted from the allowed amount.
So provider charges $100. Insurance allows $50. Patient has a $25 co-pay.
Patient pays $25.
Insurance pays $25.
Doc gets $50 and writes off $50.
Back to the OP. I’d vote for the Democrat, fully confident that the various gun lobbies, congress critters, and the USSC, will prevent any radical gun control laws from being implemented. Besides, if my representative is truly working for UHC, s/he won’t have time to do anything about gun control.
We’re currently spending MORE PER CAPITA on healthcare, and getting worse results, than any other industrialized nation because of our current idiotic system. Much of that is paid from taxes via the government for emergency and subsidized care.
I’d rather have universal coverage and spend LESS on healthcare than “freedom” and spend more. Not to mention that whole civilization thing, you know, that idea that we’re all in this together, that we have a common society, that the benefits of society and civilization are the improved standard of living that we enjoy, and that the costs of said benefits are having to share those benefits around a bit. Gosh, kindergardners manage to understand this idea, why do some adults have such a problem with it?
You know, I used to have a lot more respect for Libertarians before reading their posts here on the Dope. I’ve got to say, guys, that you don’t come across well in rational debate.
I am not a libertarian, I am a republican. Although I can understand from reading my posts why you would think I am. I guess the guestion is "Are you willing to give up more freedom so you can spend less on health care? I can see are. As for me, I am not willing to give up any freedom beyone what I have already had to sacrifice.
Kindergardeners also believe in the easter bunny, eventually they grow up!
“we have a common society” - This seems like a good Marxist statemrnt to me.
From each according to their ability to each according to their need. Right?
Other then living on the same “ball” and being of the same human race, what is common about us?
That is pretty silly. We all live within the same geographic bordrs, sharing the same government, living uner the same laws, being defended by the same military, and paying taxes to the same government.
How (or why) you would make some off leap into Marxism based on a single phrase that is undeniably true, I have no idea.
As for your attempt to insert a statement that redtail23 had not posted and then claim Marxism, you would be better off blaming Christianity:
I like the quote, good try. Where is that in the bible? Too bad this is an obvious act of charity NOT A COMMANDMENT or a LAW of the land. But a good try on your part none the less. What we are talking about is the forced removal of wealth from one person to give it to another. I am all for charity but not for being robbed by my government. I want them to protect me, it’s not their job to provide for me. Believe it or not, I am not a wealthy guy. I could use the help myself. I have 3 kids and live paycheck to paycheck with a little savings for a rainy day. By no means am I rich.
As for common community - We don’t all pay taxes, my wife works a part time job at a clothing store just so we can have a little “mad money”. She gets every scent she pays out, back at the end of the year. We pay NO TAXES on her income. I thought you would get the point about all living on the same “ball” but thank you for pointing out that there are boarders on the ball as well. We don’t all live under the same laws, at least not in how justice is handed out. Ask the Jina 6 people about that. And as for the government, well if you consider that many on the “uninsured” list are not even citizens of this country. I don’t think that this is exactly a fair statement either. The idea of a common society is nice but the facts and the amount of self imposed division simply don’t support that ideology.
If you feel sorry for a neighbor who is having trouble making ends meet, then by all means, feel free to cut them a check and help them out. Give Blood, donate to the red cross or the salvation army or whomever. Help the poor as commanded in the bible, but don’t FORCE anyone to do it. If we are such a common society, then why are we not helping each other out?
Oh, I’ll play.
Liberalism is simply a polite term for sloth and gluttony. Everytime the individual is dragged down closer to the lowest common denominator; that’s a victory for the Democrats; the party of mandated equality; pure and simple.
Can’t speak for previous morons, but I received a first-class education at a public school in - gasp! - Alaska. Present and future morons are victims of the “no child’s behind left” program of the past seven years, which has reduced public schools to trying to cram test material into the little brains with little thought to actually educating them. But at least a bureaucracy was created to administer the failed program, so we have that going for us. Or is that not what you are alluding to?
I could not agree more!
Frankly, I’m vexed as to why this is an issue at all…
Regarding Healthcare;
The first thing to enact is tort reform, followed closely by a severe tightening of the noose around the neck of the insurance industry and finally set national standards for physicians.
After you stop greedy patients from suing every time hair is pulled out with a band-aid, that will reduce the costs of malpractice insurance, (awards for which ought to be capped on actuarial tables anyway) which will reduce the cost of doing business for many providers and bring the cost of healthcare back into manageable territory. Then, you can begin to set standards for physicians that are static nationwide, (partially) fund physician/medical education (so we have more doctors and nurses, that are in it for the calling rather than the cash).
This will level the playing field, allowing more employers to afford their OWN healthcare for their employees, (also allowing self-employed and unemployed to afford at least a modicum of healthcare) and forcing insurance companies to play ball with the state and local governments with regard to competition.
Complete nationalized healthcare will be a giant suckhole of money and bodies.
BAD idea.
As for guns;
I will give up nothing in this regard. We have the right to keep and bear arms. Period. Gun control does not work as it is now, remove further the ability for the public to protect itself from ANY onslaught, and you will truly have a society of victims.
As disgusting as I find both parties, I would vote Republican in this instance (and pretty much this instance alone, I’m an independent, donchaknow)
Is this the same freedom I’m already giving up as my tax money gets used to kill kids in Iraq? Or to hire mercenaries to kill kids? But I suppose you oppose the right of kids to be sick without decent medical care - as your hero said, there is always the emergency room.
BTW, I don’t see a lot of Democrats proposing to ban guns, and the right to own them is not absolute in any case. I do see Republicans against UHC, though.
Is there some place we can set up a Libertarian paradise, and ship all these people off to it? I’d pay good money in support of that. We’d need to make sure there are plenty of guns there, so they’d be happy. Then we can televise what happens - would get great ratings!
Buttonjockey.
I want to say, DUH! to myself! :smack: Very well said!! I agree.
This entire disjointed rant was provoked by one comment pointing out that your “Marxism” interjection was baseless?
Less caffeine before you post again, please.
(Are you serious that you do not recognize that quote from the New Testament? I’d have thought by now, that anyone who threw around wild and inappropriate accusations of Marxism would have had those verses thrown back in their face by now.)
(Are you serious that you do not recognize that quote from the New Testament? I’d have thought by now, that anyone who threw around wild and inappropriate accusations of Marxism would have had those verses thrown back in their face by now.)
[/QUOTE]
Perhaps you are a trend setter? I will let you know if this begins to occur more in my life. 
I really don’t recognize it the quote, do you know where it as? As for the wild and inappropriate accusations, I feel strongly that we are a nation founded on individualism, coming together to achieve a common goal in times of crisis. But largely founded on the rights of the individual, not the common good. That is Marxist.
Where did you get this from? Canadian health care is not viewed well in Canada.
In a recent poll, more than 80 percent of Canadians rate the system “in crisis.” People wait for practically any diagnostic test, surgical procedure, or specialist consult.
If you missed this on the nightly news there is a town in Canada that has a lottery every year where 50 people win a family doctor.
The doctors’ shortage is so severe that, in Norwood, Ont., winning the town lottery isn’t a ticket to material wealth. With just one family doctor to service the entire town, the physician takes only 50 new patients a year. As a result, the town holds an annual lottery with the 50 winners getting an appointment with him.
This is not a cherry picked incident:
The plight of Norwood is not unusual. According to Statistics Canada, approximately 1.2 million Canadians don’t have a family doctor and are looking for one.
There is no “slightly worse” if there is a long waiting list for diagnosis and treatment. A staff infection will kill you in days. Something as routine as a heart bypass in the United States is a major deal in Canada. The average wait is significant:
Alberta’s median waits for heart bypass surgery were 20 days – faster than British Columbia’s 24-day wait but slower than New Brunswick’s eight-day wait.
Other delays taken from an Alberta government site:
A new report from the institute shows Albertans faced a median wait of 167 days for a knee replacement and 126 days for hip replacement surgery – middle-of-the-road waiting times compared to other provinces.
Surgical waiting times have been the subject of heated debate since last June, when a Supreme Court of Canada decision ruled that medical delays violate the Quebec charter of rights.
Last December, provincial health ministers set waiting time benchmarks for five procedures, for example, striving to provide cardiac surgery within 26 weeks.
Their GOAL is 26 WEEKS!!! One of my co-workers almost lost her Canadian father in-law because they delayed his bypass surgery and he had 2 heart attacks in the hospital. He waited weeks (after he was hospitalized) for something that is routine and easy to schedule in the United States.
I had kidney stones 2 years ago. I went to the closest emergency room which immediately set me up with a morphine drip. Within an hour I had an X-ray and an MRI (Ct-scan?). I saw my family doctor twice and a Urologist twice. The 2nd visit I was givin the choice of treatment and I was in surgery in 3 hrs. It all happened in 2 weeks. done.
In England they get excited if they can cobble enough shillings together to co-op a lithotripter.
Delays in health care are not a solution, they’re a problem. Charging extra for health rationing is not acceptable.
I don’t see a cite at your cite for this “recent poll.”
One doctor in a town of 1,300 is bad. How much of that do you suppose has to do with Canadian doctors leaving to move to the States where they can feed off the teet of a spendthrift medical system here in this country?
I believe the US already has a health care rationing system. But instead of being based on urgency, it is based on money. If one doesn’t have private insurance, basic health needs are not met. Forget waits for specialists who can perform complex heart bypasses, there have been children in this country who have suffered – even died – because they couldn’t see a dentist. Link.
So, a quarter of a million tax dollars spent on emergency treatment of this child could have been avoided had our government had an effective system of arranging an $80 dentist visit.
That is simply incredibly wrong. Canada may be in the unfortunate position of not having enough doctors, but here in the US we apparently have health care providers who simply prefer not to see poor people.
So, I ask those here with good health insurance plans, what are we to do with a child whose dental problems have become life-threatening because of our dysfunctinal health care system? Shall we encourage them to grow up, not be poor, and not be sick? Or maybe we should simply let them eat cake?