Yookeroo, you made the broad statement, not me. It is up to you to justify your claim. When someone asks for a cite of a statement, it is generally expected that the cite will have value relating to that statement.
Now, earlier in the thread I said that Bonds made no friends when he said he was better than Babe Ruth. You wisely asked for a cite, which I provided. Later you asked, “Does anyone really need a cite that sportwriters are stupid?” I replied that I did - because, you see, this is nothing more than an opinion. You provided a Google group conversation that - by the way - had virtually nothing to do with sportswriters being stupid. Your cite was useless in proving YOUR claim.
I realize this must seem silly, giving you a play by play of what occurred in this very thread, but you seem a bit confused. Remember, you were the one who, when EJsGirl said that “[h]e seems to be quite the asshole with press and fans, he is being subpoenaed in an illegal steroids case… ,” asked for a cite.
Why, I don’t know. But you were provided with one. You should at least admit that Bonds has a reputation of being caustic to press, fans, mangagement … really, just about everyone. This is his reputation, not something we’re creating out of whole cloth.
Bear something in mind, when discussing Barry Bonds’ remarks about Babe Ruth:
Suppose Barry had said something like “I Want to shatter ALL the records. I want to OWN the record book. I want everybody to say I Was the greatest player of all time. I want people to forget about Aaron, Ruth, Mays, Killebrew… I want people to know that NOBODY was in my class.”
If he’d said that, would he be arrogant? Egoistical? Insulting? Sure! But almost every fan would respect his desire to be #1.
But that’s NOT what he said! Apparently, he doesn’t want to shatter all the records. He doesn’t care about being the rgeatest ever. He just wants to break Babe Ruth’s records.
You think the fact Babe Ruth was white is irrelevant? Guess again! It’s precisely because Ruth was both white and an icon to millions that Bonds wants to surpass all his records.
“I want to be the best” is one thing- it’s quite admirable. I want to be better than any white man" is contemptible- but that appears to be Barry Bonds’ attitude.
Right. The claim that Bonds is an asshole, I wanted to see some evidence of it. I didn’t ask for a cite that actually says he’s an asshole. I was looking for actual examples. One unlinked article in ESPN magazine and one false claim that he said he was better than Ruth isn’t overwhelming evidence. My whole point was that what gets presented to the public can be very different than what someone is really like. This is especially true in sportswriting. Unless there some real pattern of assholish behavior, I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Asking for a cite on the intelligence of sportswriters was pretty silly. Especially since you specifically didn’t want examples of their stupidity. I know you were trying to be clever and turn the tables, but it didn’t quite work since what I originally was asking for what you were rejecting. And it doesn’t help that you keep building straw men:
I never claimed his reputation was anything other than that. I’m not sure that is deserved. I’ve never heard management complain about him. Outside of Jeff Kent (who doesn’t exactly have a sterling reputation himself), I don’t know of any teammates that complain about him. The press does, but I fully believe he often does act like an asshole to them. So the press doesn’t like him and neither do the fans (who are greatly influenced by what the press has to say).
He may not be a prince, but I suspect he’s not actually as bad as his reputation. Maybe he is, but I’d rather give someone the benefit of the doubt.
Then why did you make it? More to the point, why did you bother coming up with an unhelpful cite?
I asked you for one because you made the rather bizarre pronouncement that strongly implied it was common knowledge that sportswriters are stupid. I have seen no evidence of this, and I asked you to provide some. You did not. You should retract your claim, or at least qualify it.
What is presented to the public can very often be precisely what that person is like. You have zero evidence to the contrary. There have been plenty of stories about Bonds’ mercurial attitude toward nearly everyone he comes in contact with, from the home run stares to the surliness with fans and the press. If you need “evidence” that he’s an asshole, you are either not cognizant of his public persona or you’re fooling yourself.
Heh. Nice try, but no. You actually went to the trouble of asking if anyone wanted a cite, and I obliged you by asking. Don’t pin this one on me - you brought it upon yourself. As I said earlier, you made a blanket statement, meaning it’s up to you to back it up somehow or qualify or retract it.
He’s been playing for 18 years and has had the reputation of being a surly, nasty, me-first prick for all of those 18 years. Feel free to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it’s not as if this is a recent development. The press does on occasion make a guy look bad simply because they don’t like him, but for 18 years? Not likely without his actually being a bad guy.
You note that the fans are greatly influenced by what the press says about a player, but you forget that fans actually watch these players play. They see how they comport themselves, whether it’s watching a home run or refusing to sign autographs for anyone.
Can you come up with one with a .276 lifetime average?
I really don’t give a crap about 400/3000. All that represents to me is longevity. He also had 1300 career strikeouts and grounded into 350 DPs – that’s more than Jim Rice!!!
If, say, Jeter’s career ended after 10 years, he wouldn’t have 400/3000 but I’d still take his 10 years plus an average shortshop for another 10 years over Ripken’s 20 years. That’s my point.
And, we’re all comparing him to middle infielders from the past. Well, you all know MIs never used to be in his style and that’s why he stood out so much. He changed the position, and now that they’re putting the big athletes there, guys like Jeter, A-Rod and Nomar are indicating that maybe he’s not quite so special as he seemed at the time.
[and, there’s still that little story about him smacking Kelly around the night the O’s “couldn’t” turn the lights on. ]
The little story that’s probably false? Uh, yeah. Whatever you say. Nothing like tossing up an unverified bit of info to support your info, smiley face or not.
Ten years for a middle infielder isn’t very much, and if you look at current HoFers most played considerably longer - it’s the exception (like Koufax and Puckett) who plays for only a short time. And a player would have to be incredibly great - far and away the best at his position - to make it into the Hall after a ten-year career. Jeter’s not the best at his position, so it’s quite unlikely he’d make it in after ten seasons. Fifteen, perhaps.
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