Flying_Monk: The people involved in that scam may be Traveller, or Romani, or neither. Police departments will often use the term ‘gypsy’ to mean a transient lifestyle rather than an ethnicity. It’s kinda like the drivers of ‘gypsy cabs’ don’t actually have to be Romani.
The biggest news I remember about the Travellers around Augusta was a case or two of a 12-year-old girl being married off. I don’t know much about them otherwise, but I must say that’s not the most encouraging sort of thing to know about a group. Occasionally you’d see them around town, and they were very obvious, because even the little girls had their hair done and a ton of makeup on. And that’s about all I know, except that they had the usual bad reputation. I have no idea how much of that was earned, but they seem to be an odd group of people.
IRL, to my knowledge, I have never met an American Gypsy. But I remember something a man once said about his Rom buddy. He had a good friend who was a gypsy, who lived somewhere near the PA/MD border. I can’t recall what the guy did, but I remember that it was some aspect of metalworking-- welding, bicycle repair, something like that. One thing that’s stuck with me is that the man and his family did not make it a habit to announce their ethnicity to just anyone. The guy noticed that when he told acquantances that he was a Gypsy, they tended to clutch their purses and feel for their wallets. They looked at him differently.
What that story means is that I could have met Gypsies. Since they wouldn’t be wearing colorful headscarves with dangling gold coins, I’d have no idea.
I’m curious about this. I can’t find a mention of this on the King County website. Do you have any info?
My experience with Gypsys has been strange. I have camped with some in Yugoslavia ('86) and there was nothing remarkable to report there. They just seemed like a big extended family sitting around a campfire-eating, laughing, conversing- a scene worthy of a painting, * Gypsy Campfire*. They did seem extremely poor and rag-tag (a reflection of most of Communist/Socialist Yugoslavia at that time). Most of the Yugoslavians had it pretty bad but the Gypsys seemed even worse off.
A small band, again what seemed an extended family, took up residence at a Hotel I worked at (Paris and Nicki are the heiresses.). On a couple of occasions, I was harrassed by a group of the Gypsy children while I was working - Mostly evil eyes and obvious insults or curses in the Rom language whilst swarming about me. I just smiled and, as someone interested in foreign languages/linguistics, marked their language and stored away some new culture and interesting speech patterns, there also seemed to be some secret subtext through very subtle gestures and body language between the group. I honest to God think they were trying to set up a pocket pick, or just practicing- dunno. I delivered a huge spread (Room Service) to the Gypsy King’s room and he pulled out the biggest wad of cash I’ve ever seen and tipped me rather well. I heard a rumor later that they had gotten into trouble shoplifting at the shopping center across the street fom the Hotel, don’t know if that’s true or not. It does seem like their reputation precedes them, however fair or unfair the prejuduce.
Can’t say I blame them. I hope I never go there either.
In the context of the removal of local authority requirement to provide acocmmodation for Gypsies and Travellers in the UK, it seemed like a smart idea for Gypsies who want to continue their traditional lifestyle to buy their own land on which they could live. Sadly, it has proved impossible to get planning permission, and families have repeatedly been evicted by the councils from their own land (example from BBC), often resulting in complete destruction of their homes with no remedy. Since this attempt to comply with society’s requirements while maintaining their culture has been refused, the question needs to be repeated: “where are they supposed to go?”
Dop the gypsies in the UK run the “fortune telling” racket? That seems to be a major occupation of the rom in the USA. There is one such clan, in the town that I live in. They occupy a house which advertises their services on a sign outside. I’m told they are of the “bimbo” family (apparently a gypsy surname). Whether their activities goe beyond this. I don’t know…but it would seem to me that fortune telling would not be an especially lucrative business these days.
Just a reminder that we don’t want a debate about who does or doesn’t pay their fair share of taxes, who can or can’t be trusted, etc. Let’s stick to verifiable facts about population statistics, arrest rates, terminology (gypsy vs. traveller), etc.
They are people, just like anyone else. My family has been friend with a family of Gypsys since before I was born. When I was a baby, a Gypsy saved my life. It’s actualy a weird story: After that happened, he offered to buy me from my Mom. He was going to trade her a brand new corvette, but she wouldn’t go for it. I still see them occasionaly, they come into my area every now and then. They are good people, and have very strong cultural beliefs.
Apart from the fact that while 80% of all planning permission applications are approved, 90% of applications submitted by ‘Gypsies’ or Travellers are refused.
Living in Philadelphia, I’ve seen a surprising amount of prejudice toward Rom. It seems to be the only prejudice you can express without everybody in earshot condemning you.
The Rom are aslo the group most Philadelphians have never actually met.
Worth mentioning that, while the 1994 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act removed the legal obligation for councils to provide sites as they were required to do under the Caravan Sites Act, many councils ignored that obligation in the first place. As a judge at the European Court of Human Rights pointed out in a dissenting opinion to a case brought by British Romanies :
FWIW, my Gypsy experience. I was working with a swimming pool cleaner about 15 years ago. One of the pools maintained was with a Roma family. They had a house in a working middle-class neighborhood (Westbury, in Houston). The pool was in bad shape (has nothing really to do with the story) and had a totally hot 17 year old daughter. We got to talking to her, and found out that she was already arranged to be married. She was quite pleasant, and did not seem to have any problem with this. To us, it was totally different from typical American society as we knew it, but common among the social circle of this family.
And you don’t think this could simply be because 80% of all PPAs are “appropriate to the surroundings”, whereas perhaps 90% of PPAs submitted by Travellers aren’t? Any sizeable settlement of people requires increased facilities in the area to support the new community, and the funds to provide this … and this isn’t possible at the drop of a hat.
I can’t claim to know an awful lot about this subject (despite having known Traveller blood on my mother’s side, and rumoured Romany blood on my father’s!) but gut instinct tells me the law is applied impartially in these cases.
If you can point me to an unbiased cite which shows Travellers / Gypsies have been treated differently to how anyone else would have been treated with identical land ownership and planning application, I’m willing to be convinced that injustice is happening in these cases.
Maybe Kal (or anyone else who knows) could answer this:
Is there any tension between the travelling communities (When I was a lad we had dealings with the fairground people and they were very disparaging about the Irish - they called them “hedge bumpers”).
If so what are the roots, and how is it expressed?
