"Hacking"

The BBQ Pit
1

First and foremost, I’m not upset – I’d just like some clarification. However, it’s about a mod’s actions, and that’s why it’s here.

In a recent thread, Czarcasm spake thusly:

Now, I understand why “this kind of experiment” should not be tried here. And I understand why hacking should not be tried here. What I don’t understand is why Czarcasm referred to this activity as hacking.

Hacking (or “cracking”, more technically), as I understand it’s generally used, refers to breaking into computer systems, to using ids or passwords or information that is not yours to gain information or access you should not have.

Hacking, as I would define it, refers to clever and creative work to solve a problem or to do something more neatly. It has several other definitions, which can be explored in the Jargon File.

None of these definitions refers to what (I imagine) several posters, including myself, did. We used publically available, easily accessible, non-password-protected information, provided by the poster (i.e., his profile) to learn more publically available, easily accessible, non-password-protected information. Where I come from, this isn’t called hacking … it’s called research.

Czarcasm, I have no quibble with what you did – in your shoes, I imagine I would have done the same. That’s why I didn’t detail the method(s) used here. I’m just not sure why you used the label “hacking”.

2

Can we go sidehacking instead?

3

Bad MSTie! Moderator says no hacking at all! :smiley:

4

I don’t know what the white-hats can do about the usage of the word ‘hack’. They’ve been fighting it for years, but it’s just a losing battle.

5

It’s just a little bit annoying to always be associated with criminals.

Just a little bit.

Please, use the correct term (cracking), out of respect for me.

6

Many of us who are steeped in network security – I daresay far moreso then those protesting here – refer to hacking as an illegal activity. The fact that you define it such doesn’t make it so.

7

Technically, having just come from that thread, what we did was called “skip tracing”.

People, don’t put your real name on anything internet related. Ever.

~J

8

‘Hacking’ may have once meant one thing, but now just means some sonofawhore in St.Petersburg is going to be getting Hello Kitty! porn, courtesy of your credit card. Word meanings do change over time.

9

It’s not what was actually done that is the problem – it’s the invitation. Someone who was determined to meet the challenge would find it a lot easier if they used illegal means-- which is not ruled out in the invitation. Even without hacking the SDMB server, one could easily use the information in someone’s profile to determine another place to target for packet sniffing or even a less passive method of jiggery-pokery. The easiest place to start would be right here, of course, but if you challenge someone to determine your real identity, the easiest way would definitely not involve limiting yourself to legitimate online research.

Laws could be broken, and it’s possible it could turn around and bite the Reader in the ass, if someone decided to try to make them responsible. In a civil action, it’s the folks who have assets that make an attractive target – the 12-year-old script kiddie hardly matters.

It may seem like a remote possibility, but it is a possibility. So let’s just not, okay?

10

It’s actually always had both meanings. Just in the last 5 or 10 or who cares years, some factions have got this wild hair up their butt that it’s their word, and noone else can use it except their way.

Miriam Webster says

A common definition by who knows can be found around similar to this

Except that it’s sometimes written

Well, whatever. One of those wannabe word-owners decides it’s deprecated and that makes it so.

Webster says it can be used in a derogatory fashion. And if that ain’t good enough, you gotta look to experts in the field for their usage. I for one am surrounded by experts in the field, and have been accused of being one myself in my occasional better moments. And I’ll tell you that plenty of people – not grandmothers who get their definitions from time magazine – but rather people qualified and skilled in the art and science of network security use the term “hacker” to mean someone who does wicked things with their knowledge of computer innards. Not everyone defines it that way. But many do. If I had to guess, I’d say the majority. But I don’t have to guess. Because most of us in the bowels of the network security machinery really don’t care. It’s the script kiddies craving social recognition that fight that fight.

11

I run this Intarnet now Bub!!!111

12

We had this fight during the hiatus, and it went nowhere then, either. I find the blanket use of “Hacking==bad” quite annoying, because a fair bit of what I do professionaly is a ‘hack,’ that is, a quick-n-dirty solution to a pressing problem. That I do it on the behalf of my employer, for the benefit of my employer, on systems owned and operated by my employer, might just be significant, you suppose?
Media: Stop equating my job with criminal activity, would you please?

13

Bill, I understand what you’re saying. And I read your other post too. I should have mentioned that I wasn’t looking to get into the legal/illegal hacking debate, or the hacking/cracking debate (although I suspect my sympathies were made clear) – those debates were not my point.

The way in which I found the personal information involved one website other than the profile, and one extremely common computer program – although I suspect I could have used a different website instead of that program. There was no packet sniffing or anything else arcane (although I thank Larry Mudd for his excellent post), there was nothing sophisticated or illegal in what was done.

I stand by what I said before. There was no sophisticated computer usage happening, there was no circumventing of passwords, there were no intrusive activites … posters used supplied information to research other information. It’s taken me longer to find a book in my school library, and I had to know more about the subject matter.

Jaade: I googled “skip tracing”, and found some professional services. I guess you’re right, but we did a pretty primitive evrsion of that – it didn’t take 10 days (one site’s idea of a “Rush” trace), it took 60 seconds. shrug Thanks for the term!

14

Well put.

15

I’ve often seen the PtB* here refer to alterations to vB code as “hacking”… is that usage frowned upon?

In any event, when someone says they needed to do a software hack, I know they’re not talking about anything illegal.

*powers that be

16

Oh, for the love of God. This stupid argument AGAIN?

“Hacker” means - among other things - “to gain illegal or unauthorized access to a computer.” It does. I’m sorry, but you can find that very definition in most if not all reputable dictionaries. The cite Bill H. refers to that claims it’s the wrong term in place of “cracker” is not a real dictionary, it’s an online jargon file written by computer aficionados.

English is not French, where there’s a particular definition for every word set out by some egghead in France; it’s a living language, and a word means what the general consensus chooses it to mean. If English speakers across the word use “Hacker” to mean “someone who breaks into computer systems” then that’s what the word means. If they used “Hacker” to mean “zebra,” it would mean “zebra.” And the absolute fact of the matter is that when most people say “hacker” they mean the “bad computer dude” definition.

“Hacker” ALSO means someone who just is good at using computers. It also means someone who persists at a task, game or hobby despite being bad at it. In English, words have multiple definitions. Deal with it.

17

It’s not just a losing battle; it’s a lost battle. Let’s move on.

And this from a dedicated language prescriptivist, who still holds firm on “infer” and “imply”.

18

A small percentage of the population does frown upon that use of “hacker”, yes. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: those who do frown on that use of the word are bailing the ocean with a thimble.

19

I’m not sure how the Mods/Admins will feel about this, but I’m inclined to put out an invitation to my fellow Dopers to engage me in any type of jiggery-pokery that they like.

It just sounds so naughty!

Thanks for the laugh, Larry. :smiley:

20

We’ve heard it all before. “White hat”, “black hat”, cracker vs. hacker (and to a lesser extent, hacker/cracker vs. script kiddie.

Pardon me whilst I yawn.

Popular media (IE, outside dedicated PC/computing/gaming resources) calls malicious, semimalicious or even some nonmalicious uses of a computer as “hacking”.

If you travel outside the boundaries of your AOL homepage, some people will call you a hacker.

I got called a hacker once because I had three E-mail addys and two websites.

But please, by all means do carry on with the crusade. I’m sure you’ll have just as much luck as those trying to get the media to stop calling semiautomatic firearms “assault rifles”.