My husband and I have been leisurely house hunting for about eight months now. We’ve had a deal fall through, a seller who refused to deal with us at all, and now we’ve put an offer on the house, a little back and forth, and here we are!
The biggest problem we face right now is the house itself. When we went to see the house, we found out that my fifth cousin’s mother owned it. He’s now executer of her estate, and was there when we went to look through it the first time. Our agent didn’t have a seller’s disclosure, but Dave (my cousin) took us down to the basement right away. There are four floor joists that came from a pickle factory when they built the house (late 40’s) and apparently these joists had gotten wet, and are now slowly rotting. They had never noticed before they put the house up, and there isn’t a lot of damage to them, they’re somewhat soft to an inch in. They also aren’t together, out of the 50+ joists in the place, they’re dispersed out well. There are also three broken joists. The wall to the living room isn’t centered on the beam, and they do have them shored up with the metal jacketed poles.
When our lender looked over the seller’s disclosure, they saw the floor joists mentioned, and have told us that if the inspector notes that it is structurally unsound, they will not loan us the money. Something about the inspector writing something out to the appraiser about it. I’m unclear about that part.
Our agent informed us today that we have until next Friday to have the house inspected. So that appointment is set up for Tuesday. We also have as part of our offer that we will get $10,000 to $15,000 at closing to fix the joists, so it’s not something we will live with. But our lender is not satisfied with that.
So I ask my fellow Doper’s, we have a lot riding on this house at the moment, does this sound like something we should worry about? What should we expect from the inspection? I’m going to fret about this until Tuesday.
Yes this is something you should be concerned about.
The pickle joists didn’t get wet 65 years ago and now some one noticed. Something new happened 5 or 10 years ago and wasn’t properly repaired. How do I know? Because they didn’t properly repair the other stuff either.
The lender wants its collateral to be in good condition and many many times they have seen people get repair money at settlement and buy jetskis. They need to know its fixed.
If the joists have access from underneath they can be sistered fairly easily and quickly and for not a lot of money. If not its a big project.
Get an inspection and listen to your head, not your emotions. The lender may be doing you a big favor.
I predict there will be several other houses on the market soon.
Keep looking, I know it gets frustrating, but it’s a buyer’s market and I’d guess that’s especially true in your area. If you’ve got the buying power, you’ll find a very good deal w/o major problems like this.
If they’re going to give you an extra $10k in the offer to fix the joists, why don’t they just take $10k and fix the joists themselves?
We have a VA loan, and the VA approval was contingent on a few things being fixed before we took possession, such as the uneven concrete driveway, the ungrounded electrical outlet in the upstairs bathroom, and a couple of other things. The sellers fixed them before making the sale. Otherwise we would have had to find another house – and would have done so, gladly, as this house is very nice and suits our needs, but is far from the only such house available in this town.
MsWhatsit, he is selling it for his mother’s estate, all the money has to go to Medicare. I know he doesn’t have the money up front, and with all the costs for closing and whatnot, we certainly don’t either.
When we put our offer in, they had five other offers on the table.
I know there are other houses out there, and we know we could sister the joists up as well. They’ve already had the estimate done, thus us knowing the amounts from above. It wouldn’t be the easiest thing to fix, but it’s not a wash either. I’m just tired of looking, and thinking it might be done, and then it’s not. I don’t believe with my head it’s not a huge deal either. The hunting process is wearing us down, and we’re ready for this to be our Endgame. Not just because of that, the house itself just feels right. Is that irrational to think?
What Mongo said. Also, as far as I know, a seller’s disclosure must be given to you. See if you can get one.
The bank will not give the loan based on the house being made sound in the future. The bank is being asked for the money now. The house really should have been made sound before being put on the market, because no one can get a loan on that house right now.
I’m very curious about why the wood is wet. Either it’s coming from above or below. It also intrigues me that the living room wall isn’t centered on the beam. Was it ever centered or has it moved?
As Mongo said, there are more houses on the market all the time. As someone who has gone through the house buying process in the last year (we looked for eight months!) I know how you can believe this is the one house for you. Believe me when I tell you the right house IS out there, and this might not be it (or it might).
Make sure your inspector is well qualified, licensed, etc. See if he has errors and omissions insurance. I’m in Ohio, and in this state any old general contractor, plumber, etc. can call himself an inspector. As we found out after our previous house purchase (made much more quickly than this last one because we were moving to the area) there is no come-back if an inspector gets it wrong here or if he overlooks something major - other than taking him to civil court, that is. I hope that is not true in Michigan, but if the inspector has errors and omissions insurance at least you will know he cares about doing a good job.
Be present for the inspection if at all possible.
Make sure you have that sellers’ disclosure in your hand for the inspector to see.
Our (crappy, but temporary agent) gave us the disclosure right before we made an offer on the house.
And the joists aren’t wet now, they had been wet in the factory.
There are at least four joists between each of the previous wet ones, and the three broken ones are (I believe) closer together. Those are the shored ones.
I’m sorry I didn’t make this clear before.
Our inspector is certified, I made sure of that much.
I can’t say for sure on the wall. From the layout of the house, I think it was always that way. And talking to the seller, they didn’t go down into the basement much in these later years, and it was as they moved his mother to assisted living that they noticed. I’m going to call him later today and ask if the contractor giving the estimate said as far as the structure goes. That might clue us in a little more.
Buying a house is so much more of an ordeal that we ever imagined!
Didn’t you say the timbers are rotting to the pont that “they are soft to an inch in?” That doesn’t happen from being wet from the factory 40 years ago - if I understand the situation now. If wet timbers were placed in the basement 40 years ago and then rotted, you have a very wet basement, which is a much larger problem than a few timbers.
If you’re serious about this house, I’d recommend not calling the seller directly, even if (as I gather?) you are related. (Maybe especially since you’re related.) No matter how crappy your agent is, he/she is the one who should be contacting the seller’s agent, and so on to the seller. I know it’s a roundabout way, but misunderstandings happen so easily and emotions are running high in a house purchase.
It’s so easy to fall in love with a house, and there are so damned many things to think of. What helped me on our first house purchase many years ago was the book “Home Buying for Dummies.” There are a lot of things I never would have thought of.
In addition, in dealing with a house this old you are going to be looking for asbestos, lead paint, and so on. More things to think about. . .
Wet basements can be the source of so many other problems, and they can be so costly to fix. We had our hearts set on a house on a few acres. The house had an “old part” that had originally been a vacation cabin in the 1920s. Subsequent additions were marvelous, with vaulted ceilings, new kitchen, etc. The land was charming, with an old barn, pump, pastures and so on. It backed onto a State preserve on two sides. What could be nicer?
Investigation revealed that the old part was just sitting on raw dirt, which of course is how they used to build houses. The septic field (how old? we never found out) was too close to the house by today’s code, and various other heartbreaking things made it a no sale.
The good news is that we ended up in the right house, which is even nicer.
I live in a fixer-upper and tolerate all sorts of wonky house issues. I wouldn’t buy the house you’re considering. Foundation and support issues are a deal-breaker for me.
If you think house buying is a headache, that’s nothing compared to living in a structure that is at risk of collapse.
If the inspector says the house is not structurally sound, then it would be easier for you to find another house than to convince your bank to grant you a mortgage.
Agreed. Life is too short. There are also just so many things that hit you from left field when looking for a house. We put an offer on a house that was surrounded by woods. We checked it over as much as we were able to (and we’re pretty good) before putting in the offer. Then we noticed there were holes in the wood siding, all of the same diameter and at about the same height. Some of them had insulation poking out through them!
Turns out the house was under woodpecker attack. I did my research and that’s pretty much what queered the deal. Apparently there are times when a woodpecker decides a wooden house is a big tree, and it becomes demented in its efforts to make a nest somewhere in the siding. It’s illegal to kill the little buggers, so a person can install woodpecker houses hoping the birds will move in there, which sometimes works but probably not. Patching the holes doesn’t work. The only “remedy” I found was to net the entire house until the woodpecker dies of frustration or moves away. (But what about the next insane woodpecker?) This one had gotten a huge head start because the house was empty so no one heard him going at it.
Add to that situation one of those aeration septic systems with the swirling horrible mess right under the surface, and we ran away from the deal. (Apparently in this immediate area 60 - 80% of all aeration tanks are not operating up to code.) I was not willing to have swirling poop right out side my back deck.
And that’s in addition to all the “regular” things we had to consider!
Good point. Dry rot is rot that has dried out. If the wood stays dry, the rot does not increase. IOW, fungal deterioration of wood basically isn’t possible when the moisture content stays below about 20% (which would be the case in any reasonably dry indoor place).
But fungal spores can last a very long time, so wood that occasionally gets wet can happily resume rotting. If inspected when dry, the rot will be called dry rot.
Contractor/inspector here. A little more info is needed. How does your offer compare to comps? Has an appraisal been recently done on the property?
WRT the basement issues, the mere wetting of wood does not cause deterioration. Logs which have been submerged for decades, once dried, are perfectly sound. If they are wet now, you have moisture issues, but if they are dry, it’s just old deterioration.
As mentioned by others, the soft/broken members can be sistered and will be as strong as the original member.
Regarding the living room wall not being centered over the beam, that may or not be a problem. If the wall is bearing, and the load path isn’t being properly carried, further settling and more may result. Although it one of those things that I could probably look at and offer an informed opinion, in these days of CYA, I’d likely call on one of my buddies with P.E. after their names to decide if there are structural issues.
Get all of the facts from folks qualified to deliver them, do the math, and then decide if it’s a wise deal to complete, or not. Good luck.