That’s what you get when your question to me includes shit like this,
Either I think that ALL INJURY can be held off with good diet and exercise OR I’m an idiot. Soooo sorry I was condescending. :rolleyes:
[quote=Ass For a Hat]
The only thing that matters is what your insurance covers. The HSA is only a savings account.[/quuote]
Yes, but I think it can be viewed as a plan where you all share the BIG STUFF but you split the small stuff individually.
Put it this way, then: congenital problems. No messing about, no “the parents should have eaten better and exercised more”. Children born with health problems, immune system disorders, cancer, heart problems, cleft palates, club foots, all that? There might be room for debate as to whether diabetes and certain kinds of cancer run in families, but then why do we have to put it on our medical paperwork?
And your dismissal of depression as “having the blues” is ridiculous. Reputable psychiatrists and doctors don’t prescribe antidepressants for people who occasionally feel a little glum or who lose a loved one. It’s more for people like a beloved relative of mine overtaken with frustration: “I have nothing to feel sad about,” she says. “Or afraid about or anything else. And yet I feel so BAD, like I can’t get out of bed, like I don’t want to do anything but sleep. I just don’t have the energy to do anything else.”
It’s not the feeling of waking up in the morning and grumbling and not wanting to go to work. It’s not hating your commute to work or your coworkers or your neighbors. It’s not having to clean cat yak off the carpet for the ten zillionth time. Everyone hates that. But when the sun is shining and your friends are calling and it’s your day off and you have no fears and no worries and you still can’t get out of bed… that’s what depression is. Just because you’ve never experienced it doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Just because you get the sniffles in cedar season doesn’t mean you know what pneumonia is like. Just because you get that sweet ache after you exercise doesn’t mean you know what arthritis is like.
Refer back to all your comments about fat people (picked out for easy viewing by Scarlett67). It sure seemed like you were saying that fatness is to blame for most health problems. Maybe you should have pointed out other high-risk groups to chastize, such as the aforementioned rock climbers.
So you didn’t read many of the posts on page 1 then?
I don’t see what the big deal is here. These savings accounts are good in certain cases but are not a cure all. The idea that these things are going to cure whats wrong with health care in this country is laughable but I don’t think anyone is claiming that.
Legally, your deductible can be as low as $1050 and it can still be HSA-qualified.
It’s clear though through your pricing examples that your health insurance is being heavily subsidized through your employer, in which case, by all means take the better plan that includes $10 office visits and probably even cheaper medications.
The problem we as a nation have now is that at one point in time, the majority of EVERYONE had the cozy feeling of knowing that the card in their wallet entitled them to $10 office visits, low deductibles, and cheap medications.
As utilization for services SKYROCKETED, the consequential increases in premiums to both individuals AND small employers grew at astronomical rates. Because the very idea of what insurance really is (to protect against catastrophic loss) we not only have spiraling obesity/diabetes/etc issues, but a health care system in shambles.
I mean, you would think that with cheap copays and even cheaper medicines, we would get more healthy as a nation, but quite clearly, it’s the other way around.
Well, that was supposed to say:
Because the very idea of what insurance really is (to protect against catastrophic loss) has drastically changed over the past few decades, we not only have spiraling obesity/diabetes/etc issues, but a health care system in shambles.
:smack:
You’re right that HSAs won’t be a panacea. I think it’s possible though that that they could cure some of what’s wrong with healthcare in this country.
I don’t want to get off in a total hijack.
I firmly believe there are people with serious, real, depression.
I also believe there are lots of people who are taking anti-depressants to get through the day. Let’s have a look at a page from an anti-depressant drug that has it’s own website.
Highlight some of those key words.
If you THINK you MAY have depression.
The symptoms that HELP A DOCTOR MAKE A DIAGNOSIS OF DEPRESSION include.
If you are experiencing ANY or several of these symptoms.
These aren’t “the symptoms of depression”. These are “the symptoms that help a doctor make a diagnosis of depression”. I.e. these are “the key words you need to say to your doctor to get Wellbutrin.”
You think these people are looking out for you? You think it’s responsible to tell someone that if they are “feeling slowed down” they should talk to their doctor? You think that person who goes to their doctor with this in mind wants to hear, “oh, you don’t have it”? You think a doctor who says that is going to get repeat business? You think that doctor hasn’t received perks from the people who make Wellbutrin?
Obviously, some of you don’t feel as I do, but this is what I feel I’m up against. Among other things, they are marketing drugs to people who don’t need them (notice I didn’t say there aren’t people who do need them.) and people who don’t buy into their propaganda are the ones paying for it.
People have this idea that unused insurance is money being squandered. :wally
Like who? I just know I’m paying in more than I recieve.
My sister got depressed when she lost her first baby to a miscarrage. She was set to check herself into a mental hospital on Thursday, January 19th, 2006. They found out she had Medicaid and they said she was going to need all this cash to be admitted. She couldn’t pony up so they threw these pill samples at her and sent her on her happy way.
She died early Saturday morning, January 20th, 2006 of an overdose of these pill samples. Should she have actually gotten to see a doctor they could have found out that she only weighed about 100 lbs, and the dose they told her to take was way out of line.
What happens to people like my sister? She didn’t smoke. She was certainly not overweight. She was young. She was just between jobs (she was a sort of nurse type thing.) Very healthy. What happens to people who can’t pony up? The stay would have been less than $2500 dollars, but I guess she felt too guilty to ask any of us for help.
I know she was on Medicaid but the same thing would have happened if she was on any sort of these high deductable plans with or without an HSA.
Trust me, I do have a big problem with the way insurance is run in this country. I buried my sister last weekend because of it. But I don’t necessairly feel that making the young and healthy gamble is the way either. I really wish I had the answer, but I don’t.
Wish I had it two weeks ago.
I like HSAs as an option, but if it is the only plan offered it can be a very bad fit for many people. I think HSAs would be even better if doctor’s offices had “cash” and “insurance” rates where they gave a discount based on not having to spend time transcribing everything and dealing with the paperwork. This would make the money in the HSA go further and make it work better. Unfortunately Dr’s bills have often evolved into the cost of service plus the cost of the office staff it takes to research the insurance requirements, fill out all the paperwork, monitor the claim, and all the other sheperding which goes on with a typical HMO or PPO type plan.
So my general feeling is that HSAs are good for some people and their major drawback is that they’re new on the scene and are making their first impression on people in a medical service environment which has evolved very high up-front billing rates to cover the costs for dealing with the mountains of paperwork traditional insurance requires.
Enjoy,
Steven
Well, with many of the calculations above, if she’d had a HSA she could have paid for it out of that And since she was between jobs it would be easier to pay for the catastrophic insurance than HMO/PPO.
Hell, I used my HSA to pay for my Lasik in February and spent the rest of the year contributing monthy deductions into it.
I really sorry to hear what happened to your sister, TD. I wish you and your family the best in dealing with your loss.
Does anyone have statistics that show people go to the doctor more than they used to? I can’t figure out how to Google it.
Okay, see, this I can get behind.
I’d been feeling depressed. So at the end of a doctor’s appointment I said to my doctor “Doctor, I’ve been feeling kind of depressed. Lethargic, not really wanting to get up in the morning. It’s hard to drag myself out of bed to go to class, and I sometimes just want the whole world to go away.”
I was hoping he’d refer me to a decent psychologist, someone I could talk to once a week. Instead, he nodded. “I’m going to give you a prescription for Zoloft.”
Just like that. He didn’t ask any questions or anything. “You feel down? Have some Zoloft.”
See, it’s sounded like you’re blaming the patients who go in and have a problem. It’s not just their fault, I think – the person who thinks his breathing is a little labored might just need exercise but he thinks he’s on the verge of a heart attack. When he’s told “Well we’re going to run a lot of tests and put you on 238947 kinds of medication,” he thinks something’s being done. The doctor thinks he’s going to get another shipment of pens from the pharmaceutical companies.
Not all doctors are like this – my current favorite will tell you what he thinks is wrong. He says flat out: “LPN, you’re twenty-six. You don’t need to be taking medication every day. Let’s find a way to treat your problem without medication. Having sleeping trouble? Try some camomile tea before you go to bed, and these stretching exercises and these breathing exercises. If they don’t work in a month, come back and we’ll see.”
But you’re right – this is a hijack. I’m just glad we seem to be cool now. 
I am so sorry, Translucent Daydream. I can’t begin to truly understand your loss. I’ve had friends who suffered from depression, and family, and my own sweet self. It shatters lives and makes ordinarily marvelous people turn in on themselves, become everything they hate, finally destroying themselves from within.
Mental hospitals can be really wonderful, despite common wisdom – a friend of mine checked himself into the state hospital when he was getting honestly suicidal. He had enough survival instinct to do that. The state doctors had previously told him “Yes, you have major depression, and doesn’t it suck? Sadly there’s really nothing we can do.”
Because, of course, he has no insurance.
After he checked himself into the hospital he got the care he truly needed. He was only in for a weekend, but now he has a coping mechanism for his problems. I hope he is doing well.
This same fellow once collapsed in sheer agony in the middle of a shop – he had a herniated disc, I believe, one that required surgery to set right. All we really knew was that he was sobbing and terrified and he couldn’t stand up. The ambulance came and took him to the nearest hospital.
Of course, he has no insurance.
He went in at seven, sobbing in pain. At nine they gave him something for the pain. It didn’t do much. At ten he had to go to the bathroom. At ten-thirty we got him a urinal bottle, but he couldn’t really move much less make himself go. At eleven, one of us escorted him to the men’s room. He slipped and fell on his way and made a terrible mess of himself, one that the nurses kindly shoved a mop toward us to clean up.
We finally got him out of that hellhole at 1. He was never in a room, he was just on a cot in the hallway. Five hours is a little long to wait. And as we left, we were badgered by the staff to pay them for the ambulance ride. Had it been me they harassed I would have made a scene, I think. As it was my boyfriend, he caved and wrote them a check he couldn’t afford.
I understand their point of view. He wasn’t dying. Apart from pain pills and an X-ray (which he never got, not from them) and some mild prodding, there wasn’t much they could do. And because we were in the ER, we weren’t legally forced to pay the bills from that stay. They could hassle us forever, but they couldn’t make us pay. I understand where they’re coming from.
The insurance companies are a problem, but just as has been said in this same thread, the problem does not begin or end there. The entire system is fouled up.
Not specific statistics in numbers, but I googled this:
From this page (below quote): http://www.builderonline.com/industry-news.asp?sectionID=26&articleID=253445
From here: http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/lcsstaff/2001/comsched/01Health0919agd.htm
And in regards to prescriptions alone, from here: http://www.kff.org/insurance/7031/print-sec1.cfm
Can anyone recall what year they first started advertising drugs on TV? I couldn’t find it with google.
I called my old man last night. He’s a retail pharmacist, has been for 40 years. I wanted to get the skinny on the retail price of drugs before swtiching to a plan where I might pay it out of pocket.
Currently, we get birth control each month, and maybe once in a blue moon we have to get a script for an antibiotic or allergy medicine or something.
Anyway, he tells me, “if you get a antibiotic, make sure you tell the doctor you want a first generation generic(*).” He went on to say that a first gen. generic might be $15 for a bottle, whereas the cost is $150 for the newest version of the drug.
The difference? Convenience. That first-generation, you might have to take it 3 times a day with food, and the new-fangled one. . .you might be able to take it once a day without food. You’re in a health plan with drug coverage and a $10 co-pay on both, which one are you going to choose?
It just struck me that we’re so isolated from things like that. And the insurance companies want it that way.
(*) I think the term was “first generation generic”. It was something like that.