Halloween: The new Rob Zombie version

Cafe Society
1

Now I likes me a good horror flick. Hell I’m even up for a good slasher flick. I kind of liked The Devil’s Rejects just for it’s sheer over-the-top gore fest.
But this just sucked. Rob Zombie cannot write dialog to save his life. The first 20 minutes of the movie were cringe inducing. Or maybe the dialog would have been better if his wife was a better actress. Don’t get me wrong, she’s hot as all get out, and the obligatory near naked ass shot of her that he puts in all his movies was a nice few seconds. But hotness alone does not an actress make.

And while I like boobies as much as the next guy, it did sort of creep me out that every set of bare breasts in the film belonged to a high school girl. Basically every teenage playing actress in the movie got at least topless. That just struck a creepy chord with me.

After the first 30-45 minutes, the movie did pick up a bit. Some good music to creepy thing moments. Good menacing bad guy that wasn’t too superhumanly resilient to damage until the very end.

All in all I wouldn’t pay to see it in a theater again, but it would make a good PPV buy if there wasn’t anything else to watch.

2

God, I hated this movie. I think I’ve given up on Rob Zombie as a director. I thought he had potential at first, with 1,000 Corpses, but he’s just gotten worse and worse. I’m really sick of this “let’s wallow in the debasement of ‘white trash’” thing I’ve been s eeing in movies lately, anyway, but the thing that made Halloween scary in the beginning was that he was a typical suburban/small town kid. I didn’t need to know any of this stuff about him, but Zombie’s going to provide it anyway, it shouldn’t be this lame.

3

A friend at work whose opinion I trust confirmed for me today that this is just rubbish. Shame. I love Rob Zombie dearly, but after three crap movies I’m running out of excuses to make for him.

And did he really put his wife in this one as well? Good god man! If you absolutely must have her in every movie, have her stripping over the credits or something. Girl can’t act.

4

I thought it was great. I’ve never liked the Halloween franchise, and always found Michael Myers to be a boring and unscary villain. Once they got into making him all supernatural and having elemental powers and stuff in the later entries in the series, it just made him more boring to me. So maybe I went into it without the baggage of a fan of the series or whatever. Likewise, I’m not a big Zombie fan - I think that House and Devil’s are underwhelming at best, and quite frankly don’t see what all of the fuss is about and think that he should probably go back to making mediocre faux-industrial records.

But I really liked Halloween. The first half was visually daring - tons of closeups, and moving closeups, in spite of the anamorphic widescreen ratio, which was very disconcerting and almost psychedelic at moments, recalling Nicolas Roeg’s seventies stuff. That whole segment was very in love with its film-ness - lots of moderately overexposed footage, shots specifically composed to highlight the grain of film, even lingering shots on 8mm home movies as though to drive the point home. Horrific, verite butcherings.

The second part (the adult part) wasn’t as impressive to me, though I loved how it kept things almost ridiculously pragmatic and realistic - it almost felt like watching a live-action version of something that was previously animated, with all of the reality-based compromises involved. At the same time, I was bummed that they wussed out and still made Myers an indestructible man-monster toward the end.

5

I went to see it on Saturday with my son and one of his friends. We all liked it.

The dialog and acting in the beginning good have been a little better, some was definitely over the top, but it wasn’t terrible.

I really liked the back story, but I’m a sucker for horror and slasher flicks. It was an entertaining way to get out of the 100 degree weather for a couple of hours, at least for me.

6

[QUOTE=saoirse]
God, I hated this movie. I think I’ve given up on Rob Zombie as a director. I thought he had potential at first, with 1,000 Corpses, but he’s just gotten worse and worse. I’m really sick of this “let’s wallow in the debasement of ‘white trash’” thing I’ve been s eeing in movies lately, anyway, but the thing that made Halloween scary in the beginning was that he was a typical suburban/small town kid. I didn’t need to know any of this stuff about him, but Zombie’s going to provide it anyway, it shouldn’t be this lame.
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You thought TDR was a step DOWN from H1KC?!?! I didn’t initially like the first one
but it grew on my with a couple more viewings, but TDR is damn near an American classic!

Sheri Moon Z also showed pretty decent acting chops in both.

7

I agree with you Friar Ted. I was non-plussed at first, but The Devil’s Rejects won me over because it reminded me some of the feel that is the low-budgety goodness inherent in the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre, only amped up to 11. And I’m not remotely a Zombie fan, nor has the ads appealed to me much (although I’ll pretty much watch anything that hints of horror – SciFi Channel crap I’m looking at you), but a couple of the reviews I’ve read have me more interested than I would be just to catch it once it hits DVD. Now that I’ve got a few (severed?) thumbs up from here (love your take on things, VCO3), I might even get a bit excited.

8

[QUOTE=FriarTed]
You thought TDR was a step DOWN from H1KC?!?! I didn’t initially like the first one
but it grew on my with a couple more viewings, but TDR is damn near an American classic!
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A classic in the “histrionic garbage” genre, sure.

I really hated the backstory. Zombie had to go out of his way to make the kid the product of the very worst home life imaginable. It was like an episode of Jerry Springer, only shot realistically. His mom’s a stripper and his sister’s a nasty tramp? Why throw that in there, except as a pat pop-psychology explanation for his murder spree. I don’t want to know why he did it though.

I did kind of like the school scenes, and the bully. I just thought they belonged in a different movie.

9

This is as good a place as any to ask:

Rob Zombie: Auteur or hack? Or both?

10

[QUOTE=saoirse]
A classic in the “histrionic garbage” genre, sure.

I really hated the backstory. Zombie had to go out of his way to make the kid the product of the very worst home life imaginable. It was like an episode of Jerry Springer, only shot realistically. His mom’s a stripper and his sister’s a nasty tramp? Why throw that in there, except as a pat pop-psychology explanation for his murder spree. I don’t want to know why he did it though.

I did kind of like the school scenes, and the bully. I just thought they belonged in a different movie.
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But that is exactly what Zombie sat out to do with this - provide a backstory - and yes, it is the current trend in these movies to try and “give a reason” that people can point at and say “ah hah!”.

So, is it that it was to ‘cliche’ that bothered you? or that Zombie put it together in about the most graphic way possible?.. he put alot out there in 2 hours, and there was no “happy ending” in any sense of the word - which sets Zombie’s films apart - stylistically and story wise - he puts out there exactly what he wants to, and while I can hope he might have a ‘nice’ story to tell, if this is what he’s going to do, let him at it… each film has improved upon the predeccesor.

I, and the entire SimFamily, enjoyed it - and since this one actually set a new record alot of folks seem to like it.

It continually amazes me that they can film such brutaltiy and not actually be killing folks on camera - and the most punishing deaths aren’t even shown! (the Mother’s).

I also liked that he did not amp the “supernatural strength” - the kid learned to deal with pain, had enourmous strength but was still “human” - I doubt that there will be a sequel.

11

I love horror, I enjoyed (or at least watched) most of the Halloween series, but teenagers’ tits and retarded back stories are not my thing. Thanks for the warning.

12

[QUOTE=simster]
But that is exactly what Zombie sat out to do with this - provide a backstory - and yes, it is the current trend in these movies to try and “give a reason” that people can point at and say “ah hah!”.

So, is it that it was to ‘cliche’ that bothered you? or that Zombie put it together in about the most graphic way possible?
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Um… no. It’s the Jerry Springer episode that he made of the backstory. Again, I didn’t want one in the first place, but if he’s going to gove me one he could show a little creativity.

I agree with this. Unfortunately, what he wants to put out there is crap. Watching Zombie’s movies is like listening to a band and thinking, “these guys suck, but I wish I had their record collection.”

13

[QUOTE=saoirse]
Um… no. It’s the Jerry Springer episode that he made of the backstory. Again, I didn’t want one in the first place, but if he’s going to gove me one he could show a little creativity.

I agree with this. Unfortunately, what he wants to put out there is crap. Watching Zombie’s movies is like listening to a band and thinking, “these guys suck, but I wish I had their record collection.”
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I’m trying to figure out what he couldv’e done differently “creatively” - that would have kept micheal out of the ‘supernatural element’ or the ‘secret g’vt super soldier program’ and still been a reasonable story?

Current ‘understanding’ of these types of killings/killers usually come from a home as pictured (maybe not as over the top, but we had what, 15 minutes to establish the amount of dysfunction in the home?) and the affects of ‘bullies’ in the school system.

Had they been in a “Leave it to Beaver” setting, that would have made Michaels “turn to the darkside” much less believable (IMHO) … or had he been the “promised one” that never got the breaks he deserved, etc… all would have been “different” - but none, IMHO, would’ve established the “broken kid becomes killer” that I think Zombie was after.

You said you didn’t want a backstory, so why see a film that promises one? What could he have done different (creatively) that would have satisfied?

He did the one thing that Carpenter didn’t - He let us know that Micheals ‘demon’ was created by family/us - even the phsychiatrist ‘failed’ micheal - he made Micheal “real” and not just a “boogeyman”.

That, IMHO, is the horrific side of this story - the “wrong turn” scenario that sits in our guts.

I understand that you don’t like Zombie’s style or movies, and I respect that, just knowing that, why do you go see him?

14

[QUOTE=simster]
I’m trying to figure out what he couldv’e done differently “creatively” - that would have kept micheal out of the ‘supernatural element’ or the ‘secret g’vt super soldier program’ and still been a reasonable story?

Current ‘understanding’ of these types of killings/killers usually come from a home as pictured (maybe not as over the top, but we had what, 15 minutes to establish the amount of dysfunction in the home?) and the affects of ‘bullies’ in the school system.
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What do you mean by “current understanding”?

15

[QUOTE=saoirse]
What do you mean by “current understanding”?
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well, that’s why I put it in quotes - i’m not sure if its ‘real’ or just part of the media coverages - but alot of emphasis these days on killers is on how they were raised - defenses are made that folks were ‘abused’ as children - wether or not the VA tech murderer did it because he was ‘bullied’…

So, We have Hannibal’s backstory how he was abused and ‘made into’ a killer, we even have the Chainsaw villains “growing up” - so, its a trend - and it seems to me that some of it is taken from ‘legitimate’ theories on it.

16

[QUOTE=simster]
well, that’s why I put it in quotes - i’m not sure if its ‘real’ or just part of the media coverages - but alot of emphasis these days on killers is on how they were raised - defenses are made that folks were ‘abused’ as children - wether or not the VA tech murderer did it because he was ‘bullied’…
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I didn’t criticize the portrayal of the bullying. I haven’t seen any media coverage which revealed that teenage mass murderers are more likely to be children of strippers, or live in squalor, or have a stepfather who is abusive to the point that he’s actually comic relief. Where have you seen that?

And that’s leaving aside the trampy sister part, which is either just plain stupid or really gross.

Yes, exactly. The new Halloween is almost as good as those two movies.

17

I hate this trend in horror movies to explain the evil… It makes for Generally bad movies (Chainsaw the Begining and Hannibal Rising) and really takes away from the impact of the characters. Worse it tries to make you “understand” the villian.

I prefer my movie monsters to be just that, monsters. Evil creatures with no rhyme or reason.

I liked Michael as “The Shape”. He was not supposed to be a man he was a force. It was not supposed to be “realistic” Halloween was a fairy tale about a young girl who is stalked by a monster.

To be honest I think it rather silly to expect realism in a horror film…

By the way how the hell could no one notice an oversized damaged child in a mask wandering teh streets nor would anyone be alerted that he had escaped. It’s not like a dude of his stature and size could blend in.

18

[QUOTE=saoirse]
I didn’t criticize the portrayal of the bullying. I haven’t seen any media coverage which revealed that teenage mass murderers are more likely to be children of strippers, or live in squalor, or have a stepfather who is abusive to the point that he’s actually comic relief. Where have you seen that?

And that’s leaving aside the trampy sister part, which is either just plain stupid or really gross.

Yes, exactly. The new Halloween is almost as good as those two movies.
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Well, I didn’t say that ‘that exact portrayol’ had been covered by the media - just the concept that children from dysfunctional families are more likely to be either victims or perpetrators of violent crime - and that Zombie took the most frontal approach in the 15 minutes he allowed for it to show just how ‘bad’ this family was.

I also said earlier in this thread that it was becoming ‘cliche’ and that other movies had done it - but (TTBOMK - I have not seen Hannibal Rising, and Chainsaw didn’t use an ‘otherwise normal american family home’ as the initial setting) Zombie put it so ‘in your face’ as to be jarring - I can believe that families such as that exist - Springer puts them on the air.

So, while you see it as ‘lack of creativity’ - I see it as a little too close to home realism - back to the genre of “this could actually happen” versus the fact that I can watch Chainsaw and say “yeah, right”.

19

[QUOTE=simster]
just the concept that children from dysfunctional families are more likely to be either victims or perpetrators of violent crime
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I don’t even know what you mean by “dysfunctional.” Anyway, there is no phenotype for pre-pubescents that murder their entire families, are institutionalized, murder their caregivers, escape and go on a murder spree trying to find their long-lost sisters, whom they can magically trace somehow, and who are adopted but live for some reason in the same town as the one in which they were born and their family was murdered.

But they weren’t realistic in the least. They weren’t even good at being small-town trailer trash. It was just a lot of over the top nonsense, and the characters were as luridly awful as they could be.

20

[QUOTE=saoirse]
I don’t even know what you mean by “dysfunctional.” Anyway, there is no phenotype for pre-pubescents that murder their entire families, are institutionalized, murder their caregivers, escape and go on a murder spree trying to find their long-lost sisters, whom they can magically trace somehow, and who are adopted but live for some reason in the same town as the one in which they were born and their family was murdered.

But they weren’t realistic in the least. They weren’t even good at being small-town trailer trash. It was just alot of over the top nonsense, and the characters were as luridly awful as they could be.
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Well, you say tomato, I say we agree to disagree - Keep in mind that with the excpeption of the first 15 minutes (the ‘backstory’) - the rest of the film is part and parcel what Carpenter created - the ‘kid’ in that story followed the same path.

(I also wondered how he knew which one was his sister, but you have to give some room for it - he did decide not to kill her at the beginning - and only went to kill her after she betrayed him in the end.)

And I think I’ll leave it at that - phenotype schmeenotype - I wasn’t debating the “reality” of the premise, just trying to explain how I understood it, and that I thought Zombie did a reasonable job with that premise.