What about turning Gaza into a prison colony and running the West Bank as “Free Palestine”? Put in a system for trying terrorists, and if they turn out to be terrorists they get shipped off to Gaza, with Israel strictly controlling anything that goes in or out of Gaza.
Wouldn’t that just fuel more anti-Isreal hate? I could see comparisons being made with that plan to the Soviet Gulags, or Jewish Ghettos.
I think the historical trend leading in that direction can be explained. I doubt that increased Israel hate is really possible. If the West Bank thrives due to its cooperation then people will see the difference between the two ideologies. Islamists the world over won’t want to destroy Israel anymore than they already do.
The fundamentalist Islamists aren’t the only folks Isreal needs to worry about.
If Isreal started some kind of prison colony system, the more moderate governments in the world are going to be inclined to believe, or at least worry about the claims of apartheid which would be leveled against Isreal.
Depends on how Hamas acts in their capacity as governor of Gaza now doesn’t it? No one will expect Israel to put up with a full on terror state that has absolutely no interest in diplomacy. The main thing that keeps up sympathy for the Palestinians is the notion of the Palestinians who want to have a better life and are willing to make a deal. If they are clearly seperated between Gaza and the West Bank you can take a heavier hand in Gaza and a lighter one in the West Bank.
I didn’t say they did. But it did clarify the situation, which was important. Aside from that…
Yes, because obviously sharing power with the worst elements of humanity is a good thing.
Look, I’m not finding any support for “my position” about the mess because I don’t have one. Somehow you do. And no matter what happens you would cite it as support for your ideals. I’m not even saying it couldn’t happen, but you’ve never met a government with more power and more land you didn’t lie.
Maybe it wasn’t their fault. I won’t judge, though I certainly doubt it. Maybe the Israelis really are evil tyrants. That’s still no reason for them to come together in one state. It’s blatantly obvious that the former will try to butcher the latter. And when it happens, what will you say or do, eh? I’m not trying to be insulting, but there’s a line between idealism and plain refusal to see what is. The situation isn’t what I want it to be either; very well, let them find something which will work. The Israelis are.
How the hell does an article from a rag like The Nation prove anything of the kind?
The realities to consider are things like the mission statements of organisations like: -
- Hamas, from its Charter hamas charter extract
- Al Fatah, which also has similar genocidal provisions in its charter, unamended despite the farce known as the Oslo Accords.
For the Israeli polity to combine with these two democidal and genocidal groups to form some kind of half baked unitary polity would be the kind of insanity that only people who subscribe to The Nation would think sensible.
Yes, it is. After all, the “worst elements of humanity” are not going away. Unless you resort to genocide.
Oh, no. The problem is a whole lot more complicated than that. Read this.
If by “the former” you mean the Palestinians and “the latter” you mean the Jewish Israelis, no, that is not “blatantly obvious” at all.
Quite often an article in The Nation does prove something, but in this particular instance I did not cite it for that purpose, but simply because it is relevant, and worth reading.
No! The Nation/Weekly Standard are never correct! Not ever! Depending on whether you are a leftist or a rightist.
BG hard to imagine how you see the inability of Palestinians to live with each other without resorting to murderous attacks on each other as showing how obvious it is that a one-state solution is viable.
“Hey, Yitzkak, those Arabs next door are running around killing each other and hate us more than they hate each other. I know! Let’s all become one big happy family! … hey what’s with that big white coat … shouldn’t those sleeves be taken in?”
It does not. It only shows that nothing else is.
Oooookay. Now back to the real world.
Unfortunately the result will be that Israel will lurch hard to the right. Hamas and Hizbollah and their ilk win because conflict without end is what they desire. They continue to have their cardboard cut-out to vilify and to rally people against as the poster child against Western values and integration with the rest of the world. Peaceful coexistence is not in their gameplan.
I’m having a hard time even imagining a good way forward. I only hope someone has more imagination than me.
I thought they wanted victory, not “conflict without end.”
They’ll never have it. I think Israel would be willing to commit Genocide to keep it from happening to them should the stakes ever get that high. I think conflict without end by default is the highest they can aspire to. America would have to abandon Israel and the other Muslim nations would have to stop killing each other and turn their sights on Israel before you could even pretend that victory is within sight.
And I think that you’ve thought wrong. Israel is the “Goldberg.” I doubt even the most fanatical Islamist thinks that Israel is actually going to go away and they will rule over all the land. But the conflict gives them the reason to exist, gives them the cartoon villian to have the ten minute hate against. The conflict is the end in and of itself.
It would be insanity to think Israel is going away. They have the guns, they have the western world on their side and they face no Arab state able or willing to challenge them and when it comes down to it they have WMD’s. They certainly have the will and the military skill to survive.
Not even the Iranian nutter President fantasises beyond Israel going the way of the USSR, by becoming part of Palestine and the euro-immigrants somehow going back to Europe. And that is just Islamic fundie wanking.
And in my limited exposure to Palestinian emigres they all know this. All they want is an Israel back behind its pre-1967 borders and a unified, settlement-free Palestinian state that controls its own borders.
Sadly they also want the Right of Return. And that simply is not going to happen.
Suppose the israelis are (genuinely ) cynical about this, and hope that both sides will wipe eachother out: what will the gaza Strip be like with NO functioning government? That state of affairs cannot be good!
It looks like Hamas won the battle but Fatah is winning the war. Fatah gets the more wealthy West Bank, and probably the bulk of aid that’s been held in Escrow since Hamas was elected. That’s about 400 mill, while Hamas is getting only the stipends Europe pays to civil service workers in Gaza. I expect the West Bank to flourish and Gaza to shrivel.
I expect Fatah to do the usual and rob their own people blind and in doing so further strengthen Hamas on the West Bank.