I hunted a lot as a kid, so when went into the Army (a looong time ago), had no trouble qualifying with the M1. and carbine. OTOH, when had to shoot the Colt .45 automatic, they then taught a sideways stance with the arm held out straight. As the damned thing was about as heavy as a sledge hammer and kicked like a mule, I could just about hit the broad side of a barn, but not much else.
After getting out, had a couple of smaller caliber pistols and could do much better, particularly later when learned the front, two-handed stance.
Now, I’ve seen a gazillion western movies and TV shows where everybody always shoots a pistol from the hip, with unerring accuracy. Any halfass lawman can even shoot a gun out of the bad guy’s hand at 50 yards without even aiming. Then, when somebody actually wants to practice, they line up bottles on a fence about that far away and proceed to plink every darn one, shooting from the hip.
I sold my guns several years ago, and actually never tried this, although I recently tried it with a flashlight into a full-length mirror. I was able, the first time, to actually hit the wall it was on.
Finally, the question, for handgun sharpshooters: is it really possible to get this good, or even close to it, shooting from the hip?
Yes, you can get pretty good. The actual sport is called fast-draw shooting, it’s mostly a southwestern thing (in the US). Usually they use modified SA revolvers and wax bullets, and shoot at paddles “only” about 15 feet away, but the speed is impressive. http://www.gunfighter.com/fastdraw/ is one site that has some videos posted.
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While one has to have the talent, equipment, and ability to put in a LOT of practice and pay for tons of ammunition, DougC has nailed it. It surely is possible.
I wouldn’t have wasted your time just to agree; I wanted to add that a lot of trick shot artists use things like shotshell cartridges to hit the targets, which makes the task a lot easier, especially when hitting targets thrown into the air. However, this, too, is possible with a single bullet. Just don’t think everyone you see doing this is a super dead-eye shot.
With a lot of training, I was able to get “pretty decent” at point shooting (i.e. shooting from a mid-torso hold by with my favorite gun; that translates to a solid center-of-mass 4"-5" group at 7 meters. Now that I haven’t practiced that in going on a decade I’d be hard pressed to get in the black without using sights.
It’s possible to develop the kind of skill you describe, but for the most part the stuff you see Bruce Willis do in the lastest entry in the Die Hard franchise is pure Hollywood. Shooting accurately with a handgun takes considerable skill and ongoing training. Every time you see some supposed neophyte picking up a gun in a film and shooting badguys unerringly at twenty paces that’s squib placement, not shot placement.
BTW, if you watch the Special Edition DVD of the film Heat it shows the actors (DeNiro, Kilmer, Sizemore) training with weapons. Director Michael Mann was insistant on technical accuracy, and so the actors trained with weapons daily for three months to get the movements and reflexes precise, which is more than most enthusiasts, and certainly far more than most police, even Special Tactics officers, are going to do. When these guys do magazine changes during the big downtown LA gunfight (which is like something out of a Sam Peckinpah film) Mann doesn’t do the cutaway thing; you actually see these guys grab-slap-slam fresh mags in spare seconds like they know what they’re doing, and according to Kilmer, there’s a clip of him doing a reload that was used by Marine trainers as an example of an exemplar magazine exchange. Anyway, Heat shows a fairly accurate portrayal of weapons use and accuracy; no nonsense about hitting running targets at 50 meters with a .38 snub or some similar silliness.
You should mostly ignore everything you see in the movies with rare exceptions such as Heat. You can achieve reasonable accuracy with practice but it’s really challenging. I’ve done hip shooting stages in two different kinds of action shooting, SASS cowboy shooting (not the same as fast draw that DougC referred to) with single action revolvers and submachinegun matches that conform to IPSC rules. The results are usually one of two things, a few lucky people get a hit or everyone wastes a ton of ammunition. Hip shooting I’ve done are rarely more than 5-7 yards. In one of the subgun matches there were multiple targets at about 15 yards with IIRC a minimum of 3 hits required on neach. At that distance it was nearly impossible to see 9mm holes in cardboard so we didn’t know when we got enough hits to avoid penalties. Scoring is based on lowest time with penalty seconds for misses so strategies varied from shooting a few, quick bursts to mimimize time shooting every bit of ammunition you had loaded in hopes of avoiding penalties. The only thing we all agreed on is that “spray and pray” is the best way to keep from hitting your target.
OK, and thank you very much for the explanation. The sudden “divergence from the original question” had me wondering for a minute. All is clear now.
I will add my 2 cents worth on Hollywood stuff…as has been said, with some rare (VERY rare) exceptions, ignore this BS. “Spray and pray” indeed, Padeye is 100% correct on this!
Thanks for merging them. Nah, I don’t understand, but that’s OK. Also what I truly don’t understand is that when I (the OP) posted this, how come it appeared twice? There was a long wait for it to get accepted, but that should not cause a double. Is it because of gremlins, or that I’m a two-gun cowboy?
This summer, I did did better with a .357 revolver at 80 feet, than I did at 140 feet with a .356 carbine. The revolver standing, and braced, the .356 sitting, resting on my knees.
(yep, I know 140 feet is nothing for a rifle)
The wind through me off enough with the rifle that I did much better with the pistol when I could brace it.
For myself, it had a lot to do with breath control, and a bit of a windy day.
The .356 is a bit of a cannon, and I had only shot it 5 times before. I shot it only 20 times that day, but I felt it for a week. 336 Marlin.
Everyone already answered, but according to Wyatt Earp the people in his day (pre-factory-made guns even) were able to do it. The one thing he said that was entirely Hollywood was “fanning”, where you use one hand to cock and recock your weapon so you fire a barrage–and subsequently can’t hit doodle.
I presume the atecedent to “it” is shooting from the hip. That statement by itself is not meaningful as anyone can shoot from the hip but the OP asked about how much accuracy could be achieved.
I’m also confused about your parenthetical remark. Factory made revolvers were available from Colt’s for nearly the whole of Wyatt Earp’s life. Factory made handguns of other types than Colt’s were available long be then as well. It’s also notable that the plowhandle grip of Colt’s revolvers have a reputation for natural aiming which is an advantage in hip shooting. The grip shape from the 1851 navy model was so favored that it was used in the 1873 single action army, the “peacemaker.”
I’m not sure there is a factual answer to this beyond saying that hip shooting isn’t nearly as easy as it looks but that it can be learned with sufficient practice. Long range shots aren’t completely out of the question but are likely the exception, particularly when the shooter has the added stress of somone shooting back at him.
Colt’s Revolving Pistols - the original point and click interface
The entire “cowboy” period in American history lasted about 10 years, and most of the mythology surrounding it stems from a very small number of actual events.
When I went through the police academy in 1975, they taught us a single-handed draw from the hip. The weapon was drawn and extended forward until the elbow was touching the ribcage. You aimed through body alignment and fired double action. When I qualified on the range, we shot a 50 round course; 10 rounds at 100 yards, 10 rounds at 50 yards, 10 at 25 yards, 10 at 15 yards. All of this was done from a variety of standing, sitting and/or prone positions with the weapon already drawn. We then did timed rapid fire at 7 yards using the draw as described, 10 rounds fired within 25 seconds. I shot a score of 99.6; I was just a hair out of the kill ring on one round at 100 yards.
If you can, get a copy of No Second Place Winner , by Bill Jordan. Jordan was renowned from a long career in the Border Patrol; he pretty much developed the concept of the modern fast draw for law enforcement officers. His book is oriented toward the revolver, but the concepts are the same for the automatic. He advocated the one-handed draw and was deadly accurate with it, to the point where he would put on demonstrations by drawing from the hip at combat range (7 yards) and hitting aspirin tablets with his shots.
Though not strictly “from the hip”, these shots are point or ‘instinct’ shooting.
Ad Toepperwein shot 72,500 wooden blocks thrown into the air from a distance of 30 feet with a Model .03 Winchester 22 Automatic rifle. 99.9875872% accurate!([photo](Model .03 Winchester 22 Automatic rifle))
Similarly, “Tom Frye, a Remington gun salesman… loaded up his Nylon 66 autos and shooting for 14 straight days succeeded in banging away at 100,010 wooden blocks. He hit all but six.”
While it’s true that long guns are inherently more accurate than handguns, shooting a man size target in much easier that 2 1/2" blocks.
I’ve got a cousin who is real good shooting from the hip using eithe a rifle or a shotgun. He got that way using a Daisy pump action BB gun with the sights stripped off. Hi found the technique in a bood somewhere. I’ll ask next time I see him which is only once a year or so.
