Handicaped: right to A parking spot, or just a close spot if available?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Something I’ve been thinking about for a while. I was at Sonic a while back and noticed they had at least two handicapped parking spots, empty, whilst all others were taken. For those unfamiliar, at Sonic you order your food at a speaker at each parking spot and someone brings it to you. You don’t get out of the car.

Also, gas stations with four or five spots have at least one handicap designated spot, which is usually empty when all other spots are full. The nearest spot to the door isn’t much nearer than the furthest.

So, should disabled people have the right to a spot if everything is full, or should they wait like everyone else? My feeling is that in a small store or on the street, handicapped persons should get no special treatment, but at large establishments where lots seldom fill up, like Wal Mart, malls, stadiums, etc. spots near the door should be reserved.

I realize that it would be difficult to craft a law for this distinction, and I’m not trying to change policy, I just wanted to solicit opinion.

2

I’m not really sure what you mean by ‘special treatment’ - we’re talking about measures that attempt to enable disabled people to enjoy a normal level of service, aren’t we?

3

[QUOTE=Mangetout]
I’m not really sure what you mean by ‘special treatment’ - we’re talking about measures that attempt to enable disabled people to enjoy a normal level of service, aren’t we?
[/QUOTE]

Well having a reserved place at Sonic or the Gas Station isn’t normal service is it? I think handicapped people should be able to park as near the entrance to a building as possible, but are not entitled to avoid waiting for a spot to open up.

Again, I’m not angry about waiting a few extra minutes for my burger, and I think the Americans with Disabilities Act is a good thing, just looking for opinions.

4

[QUOTE=T_SQUARE]
Well having a reserved place at Sonic or the Gas Station isn’t normal service is it?
[/quote]
No, the parking aspect itself isn’t, but the close parking is what is necessary to enable the disabled person to access the premises in order to enjoy a normal level of service there.

5

While I’ve never noticed a handicapped parking space at a drive in, w/ car hops, if there is such a thing it seems rather strange to me.
I think the handicapped parking thing is sometimes overdone and it’s certainly abused by people who get those temporary authorizations.

6

One thing to keep in mind is a business needs parking spaces for its vendors and staff, as well as its customers. While customers may not routinely get out of their cars at Sonic, their suppliers and others do. If someone isn’t capable of walking far, they don’t have the option of parking a bit further away. If you have an employee, supplier or an owner who is entitled to use a handicapped space but no place close enough for them to park, then what happens?

Also, in many places, businesses are required by law to provide a certain number of handicapped spots. The owner may not be any happier about it than you are, but disobeying the law can get expensive.

7

[QUOTE=T_SQUARE]
Something I’ve been thinking about for a while. I was at Sonic a while back and noticed they had at least two handicapped parking spots, empty, whilst all others were taken. For those unfamiliar, at Sonic you order your food at a speaker at each parking spot and someone brings it to you. You don’t get out of the car.

Also, gas stations with four or five spots have at least one handicap designated spot, which is usually empty when all other spots are full. The nearest spot to the door isn’t much nearer than the furthest.

So, should disabled people have the right to a spot if everything is full, or should they wait like everyone else? My feeling is that in a small store or on the street, handicapped persons should get no special treatment, but at large establishments where lots seldom fill up, like Wal Mart, malls, stadiums, etc. spots near the door should be reserved.

I realize that it would be difficult to craft a law for this distinction, and I’m not trying to change policy, I just wanted to solicit opinion.
[/QUOTE]

Most governments have re-written the laws as a courtesy to disabled people, whose general lives are more difficult than yours or mine, as a courtesy. We (arguably) try to be a compassionate people, and this is one way we can make disadvantaged peoples’ lives a little easier. Look at it this way…would you be willing to trade lives with someone who faces difficulty doing tasks you and I take for granted, just so you could get waited on a little quicker?

8

It’s also not just distance that’s an issue, but the size of the space. Wheelchair users generally need larger than usual parking spaces. If parking in a normal sized space they would need to take two or run the risk of not being able to leave.

9

[QUOTE=yoyodyne]
It’s also not just distance that’s an issue, but the size of the space. Wheelchair users generally need larger than usual parking spaces. If parking in a normal sized space they would need to take two or run the risk of not being able to leave.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks, that’s the point I came here to make. A person may need extra space to unload a wheelchair, whether they use a ramp or a lift. even if they carry their chair in the trunk of their car and have a helper bring it to their car door, the chairs don’t always fit between cars very well. So those striped zones next to the handicapped spots are very important.

Plus, the curb cut is usually next to the handicapped spot. Some people who walk with a cane or walker might have difficulty stepping up onto the sidewalk. Do you want to see them walking out into the traffic lane to get to the curb cut at the end of the row? it’s just easier and safer if they’re able to park next to it.

10

[QUOTE=T_SQUARE]
For those unfamiliar, at Sonic you order your food at a speaker at each parking spot and someone brings it to you. You don’t get out of the car.
[/QUOTE]

You do, if you have to go to the bathroom or wish to sit at the tables outdoors (which I have seen frequently).

11

About handicapped spots - people who have breathing difficulties and are required to be on oxygen also get them, because 1) they have to haul a heavy-ass oxygen tank to the door, and 2) because a long distance walk could actually hurt them.

My dad has a handicapped placard because of his breathing. It’s been a life-saver (literally) several times over.

~Tasha

12

[QUOTE=T_SQUARE]
I realize that it would be difficult to craft a law for this distinction…
[/QUOTE]
No it wouldn’t. Make the rule that the business must provide handicapped parking within x distance from their front doors. I’m very bad at judging distance, but let me take a stab at saying 75 feet.

For a supermarket or Wal-Mart, that would wind up being the closest spots. For a convenience store, the spots could be a bit further back. Yet both would be within 75 feet of the door, thereby complying with the law.

13

[QUOTE=T_SQUARE]
So, should disabled people have the right to a spot if everything is full, or should they wait like everyone else? My feeling is that in a small store or on the street, handicapped persons should get no special treatment, but at large establishments where lots seldom fill up, like Wal Mart, malls, stadiums, etc. spots near the door should be reserved.
[/QUOTE]

I wanted to post again to address these points specifically, in case my point was clear earlier.

“…should they wait like everyone else?”

It’s often more than just waiting. As I said before, if the handicapped person can’t get a spot with a striped zone next to it, then often times they can’t patronize the business, period. It’s not necessarily that the spot has to be next to the door (although that is definitely a bonus for people with limited mobility or breathing capacity), it’s that the spot has to be accessible for the van, the wheelchair, etc. Oftentimes, if we can’t find a spot with a striped zone, we’re reduced to stopping in the middle of the traffic lane to unload the wheelchair, forcing people to wait behind us. Is that fair to them or to us?

You see, at some small businesses, the handicapped spot isn’t even necessarily right next to the door. I’ve been stuck in some that were way out at the ass-end of the parking lot. Not a huge deal now that I’m in a wheelchair, but when I was trying to walk with a cane, it was more convenient to use a regular spot at some places. but see, the law doesn’t specify that the spot has to be X feet from the door, just that there has to be a spot somewhere. Period.

I’m honestly bewildered by able-bodied posters who ask about these damned handicapped spots. Just be grateful you have the freedom to choose where to park, and the legs that can carry you when you have to park farther away from the door!

14

In answer to the OP; I’d say it matters just how long the handicapped person would have to wait, and if he isn’t inconvenienced too much while waiting.

So a handicapped parking space can’t be used by an able bodied person, because the handicapped person just wouldn’t know if he would come back and clear the spot withing a reasonable time, say five minutes. It would be a pain to circle around the parking area waiting for the handicapped space to open, and not knowing if it would open at all.

Wheelchair acessible toilets are another matter, IMHO. I sometimes use them, because whenever a handicapped person approaches the toilet, they know they only have to wait three minutes before I come out, and that’s doable for anyone, including moms with little kids. IMHO those toilets fall in the same category as ramps; they are designed for the handicapped in wheelchars, but they are open for use to able bodied persons with trollycarts or deleveryguys as well, just as long as they don’t block them for more then a few minutes.

I’d say a spot for a gas pump falls in the wheelchair-accessible toilet-category though.

15

[QUOTE=Gr8Kat]
I’m honestly bewildered by able-bodied posters who ask about these damned handicapped spots. Just be grateful you have the freedom to choose where to park, and the legs that can carry you when you have to park farther away from the door!
[/QUOTE]

Methinks you do not live in a city then.

In large urban centers where parking is at an uber-premium the handicapped spots are essentially wasted space and an inconvenience for the business. Here’s an example. Down the street from me there is a 7-Eleven. It has 6 spots in a very small lot which are essentially always full. They enforce a 10-minute maximum parking limit to ensure quick turn over of these spots, they are a invaluable commodity for the business and likely are the only way the store can afford to operate. All 6 of these spots are within 20 feet of the front door. One of these spots is a handicapped spot in compliance with the law. As you’d expect it’s typically open while there is almost always a queue of cars idling waiting for the next non-handicapped spot to open up.

What purpose does that designated parking spot serve? It essentially allows handicapped people to never wait for a spot while every other customer must. Every spot at the business is close to the door so distance is not an issue. The OP’s question as I read it says why shouldn’t that handicapped person have to wait in line for a parking spot just like everyone else? In the end, they’ll still have the same level of accessibility, they’ll just have to idle in their car the same as everyone else.

In a large Wal-Mart or Mall the situation is different and typically in the suburbs most business have more than adequate parking so as to not impede everyone else. In large, congested cities however the law creates thousands and thousands of restricted parking spots for a very small minority at the expense of businesses and consumers. Seems that a less draconian ordinance could be written for business where the price of one space is too steep and where the entire lot is in a certain proximity to the door making the designation overly arbitrary.

16

[QUOTE=Gr8Kat]

I’m honestly bewildered by able-bodied posters who ask about these damned handicapped spots. Just be grateful you have the freedom to choose where to park, and the legs that can carry you when you have to park farther away from the door!
[/QUOTE]

And I’m honestly bewildered by people who act like contemplating this is some sort of mortal sin. Don’t you imagine that discussions like these come in to play when policy is decided? One of the hardest things about civilization is weighing the needs of many against much more pressing needs of a few.

I know this is a sensitive issue, but I honestly meant it as a mental exercise. To put in better terms, imagine a business that has 2 parking spots, on either side of the door, equidistant from said door. Both have clearance aplenty. Should one spot be reserved for the handicapped at all times? I would think not, as the marginal benefit to society is dwarfed by the marginal cost. I say that as someone who likes efficiency in society, not as someone who wants to park right now.

And, to those who have mentioned clearance around spaces and accessible ramps onto the sidewalk: these are good points.

17

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a designated gas pump for disabled people! Of course, being able-bodied, I’ve never had to look for one, but this in particular strikes me as odd. I can understand the person wanting a pump close to the door so they can go in and pay/get snacks/whatever, but why not simply be able to wait in line for that pump like everyone else?

I fully acknowledge and have no problems with spots reserved for stores, restaurants, businesses etc, and I understand that the nature of some disabilities require quicker access to a restroom, but I don’t understand the gas station need.

Of course, I pay-at-the-pump, and so rarely actually go into the building itself, or I just use a full-service station.

Can someone tell me what I’m missing in this example? Is there somehow a greater need for accessability at a gas station that would cause someone to need a designated “guaranteed” open spot? Or is it just a courtesy, or a side-effect of the way a law is written?

18

I think the point is not that they have a guaranteed open spot, just that they have a spot of sufficient size, somewhat near the door, and have a fighting chance to get to use it.

As was mentioned before, it’s not like a handicapped toilet stall, where you know it will be free in a couple of minutes. People often park for a long time, if you’re going to have handicapped parking spaces, having them open for use makes them useless for the handicapped. For many handicapped people, that extra large spot is the ONLY spot they can park in.

19

[QUOTE=mnemosyne]
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a designated gas pump for disabled people! Of course, being able-bodied, I’ve never had to look for one, but this in particular strikes me as odd. I can understand the person wanting a pump close to the door so they can go in and pay/get snacks/whatever, but why not simply be able to wait in line for that pump like everyone else?
[/QUOTE]

I haven’t seen one, either, but my guess is the height. If you sit in a wheel-chair, but the normal gas-pumps are too high for you to reach, you may need a special pump with a lower handle. And a bit more parking space next to it to get your wheelchair out of the car, etc.

As for the general question: of course the handicapped people need special spots that are free for them. Waiting in line for god knows how long, even if parking space is rare in a city, is a major discomfort for a handicapped person; waiting in line a bit longer because there is one less parking spot for the “normal” people is only a very minor annoyance.

Furthermore, handicapped people really depend on their car; normal people have the option of walking, using the bus or cycling to avoid parking problems. For many handicapped people, only a car is a good way to get around at all.

20

[QUOTE=constanze]
Furthermore, handicapped people really depend on their car; normal people have the option of walking, using the bus or cycling to avoid parking problems. For many handicapped people, only a car is a good way to get around at all.
[/QUOTE]

Large urban areas are often blessed with decent mass transit. Taking the bus, biking–or just taking a more distant parking space & walking to the door–are all easier for us non-handicapped. Unless we’re in a great big hurry to get to exercise class! (Not I.)