Hangman´s paradox real paradox or psuedo

I apologize in advance for my punctuation being all messed up on this keyboard. This question could be a GD, but its strictly a famous logic problem really.

Basically, the problem is this.

A very intelligent man is told that he will be executed. He is told that there will be two conditions for this execution to take place.

  1. The execution will happen on either Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday of the next week.
  2. He will not know which day it will be until the day of the execution. In other words, he cannot know the day before that the next day is the day of his execution.

The paradox is that if the man lives to see Thursday, and he is not executed that day, then, being intelligent, he will know that Friday is the day of his execution. So he cannot be executed on Friday because that would fail condition 2. Unfortunately, the logic continues. Given that he cannot be executed on Friday, if the man lives to Wednesday without being executed that day, he already knows that he cannot be executed on Friday, so he knows that he will be executed on Thursday, which in turn means that he can´t be. The logic continues to rule out every single day, including Monday.

But, as the story goes, the day of execution comes, and the man does not know the say beforehand. The question is whether this could really happen.

One possible wrinkle is the use of a computer that randomly selects the day of execution. The computer IGNORES the second rule in picking the day. This fact can either be told to the man or not.

This definately changes the situation somewhat, but I don´t think it resolves the paradox. In fact, it seems to make the underlying paradox clearer, because now we see the dilemna from the perspective of the computer programmers. They can either tell the man the truth about how the computer selection process works or lie about the process as long as the original two conditions hold. And the selection process can either be fully random, or pick from a smaller set of days, such as only M thru Th. But it still seems that no matter how they design the process, and no matter what they tell the man, the paradox remains. Because, of course, if the computer randomly picks Friday, then it must start over. The man knows that even a random selection process cannot be designed to be allowed to pick Friday. So it really is picking among M thru T. But it can´t be allowed to pick Thursday, because if it did, it would have to start over… and so on.

The really cheap solution to this problem is, of course, that someone knocks the man unconcious for a few days, then wakes him up to die on the day of his execution.

Forgive me if I misinterpret, but wouldn’t your given here (first sentence) be invalidated by the next set of conclusions? If he lives to see Wednesday, that leaves the execution on either Thursday or Friday–he doesn’t know. It could very well be Thursday. If he lives through Thursday, then we can conclude that the execution could be Friday, and invalidate condition number two.

I assume by listing the days, we can gather he won’t be executed at exactly midnight, making it neither one day nor the next?

This is driving me nuts!

No midnight tricks, no. I´d smiley, but my keyboard makes it come out like this Ñ=

On Wednesday, and indeed on EVERY DAY, he knows that the date set for his execution cannot be on Friday, ever. Because if it was, then everyone would be absolutely sure that he would know on Thursday that it was on Friday. The executioners thus CANNOT allow him to live till Thursday, so he knows that Thursday is the only option… at which point it ceases to be. Remember, the executioners are constrained by having to follow the conditions too in their choice of dates, not just the man thinking.

Another interesting thing to consider is whether it matters if the EXECUTIONERS pick before the week starts, or actually just choose some day during the week and hold the execution that same day.

You don’t even need to bring in a computer or unconsciousness.
Simply letting him believe that this is the case is sufficient excuse to clobber him any day you like, as he’ll not be expecting it. boom.

I do see the game this is trying to play however, although am not quite sure of the words for it.

If you find this sort of stuff interesting, you’ll enjoy
The Fallacy Files - indeed, many SDMB posters could find it invaluable. It even defines the beloved ‘Straw Man’ who has been so badly misused in just about every GD thread in existance. :rolleyes:
( By misused, I mean incorrectly invoked by the caller )

Not many paradoxes per se, but worth a look.

[quote]
*originally posted by [/]dman

Simply letting him believe that this is the case is sufficient excuse to clobber him any day you like, as he’ll not be expecting it. boom.
Like Apos wrote, you can’t kill him on Friday or he’d know it. Which means the same for Thursday and so on. I don’t see how it could be done.

Hoo boy. This has been done in this forum before, and though it is resolvable, IMO, it’s not resolvable in a simple way.

One solution that I rather like is that you have to allow him to change his mind. That is, on Monday, he can know that it’s going to happen today. Then, what if it doesn’t happen on Monday? Does he spontaneously combust for having known something that was untrue? No, he just changes his mind, based on the new information. So now he knows that his execution is on Tuesday. And so on.

What did I miss that would prevent him from being executed on Monday?

huh?

There is no paradox, and the man can be executed on any day, including Friday. Take a second look at this portion of the “paradox”.

Compare that to condition 2, which states

Up until Thurdsay is actually over, there is still the possibility that he could be executed on Thursday. It is only once Thursday has concluded and Friday has begun that he can be certain that he will be executed on Friday. And since condition 2 allows him to know that he will be executed on the same day as the execution, no rule has been violated.

Thus, the man can be executed on any day.

This is a classic. My take:
[ol][li]On every day he knows that he cannot be executed on Friday, since if he lives to see Thursday he will then know the date of his execution.[/li]li, however, is a boundary created by his knowledge, not an elimination of Friday as a “legal” day for execution.[/li][li]Thus, when Wednesday would hypothetically come, and our man has yet to be executed, he cannot say, “I know for certain that I will be executed tomorrow because Friday is illegal”. In fact, Friday is still legal as an esxecution day.[/li][li]If he lives through Thursday, then he cannot be executed on Friday according to the rules, but he does not know that he will thus be executed on Thursday or before.[/li]* is further supported when we realize that his method of analysis leads to “never being executed”, thus using it to conlude “must be executed on Thursday if I live through Wednesday” leads to a contradiction.[/ol]

There’s a pretty simple resolution to this paradox. Have him executed on any random day at all.

His reasoning will, as noted in this thread, lead him to conclude that he will not be executed because, by recursive definition, there is no day that he can be executed on where he will not expect to be executed.

Therefore, if you execute him anyway, he cannot possibly be expecting it no matter which day you choose, and therefore you can execute him at any point. :smiley:

Not Friday. And if not Friday then not Thurday, and so on.

Even Friday?

Why not? He certainly won’t be expecting something to happen that cannot logically happen!

:smiley:

Yes Friday. [ol][li]He won’t know that Friday is the execution day unless he is not executed on Thursday.[/li][li]The only way to be certain that he will not be executed on Thursday is if he survives Thursday in a non-dead state[/li][li]If he survives Thursday, then it will already be Friday.[/li][li]Condition 2 states that he is allowed to know the day of his execution on the day of execution.[/ol]Thus, he won’t know that Friday is the execution day until Friday, and that is not a violation of the rules.[/li]
Thus, he can be executed on any day.

QED

Yes Friday.
As William_Ashbless re-iterated - the smarty-pants has convinced himself internally that he cannot be executed on Friday. Hence, he cannot be expecting it, much less ‘know about it beforehand’, as he wouldn’t believe you even if you told him!
So doing him in then is OK.

“Oh!” Says clever-dick, “I hadn’t thought of that” and disappeared in a horrid gurgling sound.

However, I think Joe Random has taken the puzzle to task on its own ground. That answer also works for me.
I think there is a shell game going on with the “cannot know the day before” phrasing.

Ooh, ooh, can I be a smarty-pants too?

horrid gurgling sound

:smiley:

Traditionally, the condition is that he’ll be executed first thing in the morning. That eliminates the Thursday afternoon possibility.

You’re right Joe Random, it will work that way assuming one can be executed any time of day. But what if the executioner leaves work ay 5 p.m. and it is general knowledge that one will never be executed after that time? Now he cannot be executed on Friday. And then not Thursday, and so on.