About the whole “porn without a condom thing.” I don’t think people really understand how the demand for porn works. A lot of people (myself included) don’t seek out “bareback” porn - I’m an occasional porn consumer, an I’m really not that picky. But I also represent a demographic that doesn’t buy or rent a lot of porn. I’m happy with stuff I find free on the net, and I don’t really have an urge to join a pay-to-view site, which would give me access to full-length movies. I also don’t buy or rent a lot of videos. But there’s another set of people that are (for lack of a better term) addicted to porn. If you need the tittilation to get off, and you watch a lot of porn, you get more and more innured to it, and it gets harder and harder to find the tittilation.
If you want to see what I’m talking about, read Ali Davis’ “True Porn Clerk Stories,” a fascinating diary by a woman who worked as a clerk in a porn shop. http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/tpcs.html
So you rent a lot from your local store, and you want to see different stuff. And it’s not unreasonable to think that you may not like to see condoms in your porn - it’s supposed to be a fantasy, and maybe putting latex on your schlong is not part of your fantasy. And these are the sort of people that generate a lot of sales, either through rental or purchase of videos, or subscribing to porn sites. It doesn’t seem reasonable to me to pay for porn when there’s so much for free, but these sites quitely make a lot of money every year.
In our supply and demand society, if there’s a demand for porn without condoms (which I’m positive there is), somebody will try to supply it. And some companies clearly are trying to do that. They took some steps to minimize the risk with monthly testing and detailed records, but there’s still a risk. To draw an anology, there’s always been a demand for cheap food, and the old Chicago stock yards provided that, at great cost to workers’ health and safety. I can’t really fault porn companies trying to fill a demand they see, but it still sucks that the actors and actresses are the ones that pay the ultimate price. While I don’t think everything should be regulated by the government, I don’t find it unreasonable for the gevernment to step in and create safety standards in the name of public health and safety. Free market economy is good, but it will always rate profit as more important than health and safety. Just because this is an industry that’s not as “necessary” as fire fighting or law and order doesn’t mean these actors and actresses are more deserving of their fate.
Boy, talk about picking the wrong analogy! If I want to watch porn and do drugs, how is that any of your business? By what right do you determine what I can and cannot do with my time and my body? Freedom, after all, does not mean letting people do only those things of which you approve.
Very true. And I’m glad to hear that. However :graps Miller by the lapels: They HAD TO STOP SHOOTING!! Do you understand?!?!? They had to STOP SHOOTING!
I know. It’s that visceral thing again. I just can’t get past that.
It’s obvious that I have far less knowledge of this topic than some of the rest of you do and I realize that some of my opinions are coming from this ignorance.
I’m trying to compare this industry to the regular film industry in this way: if I saw a stuntman doing something that I KNEW was risky or dangerous, it would bug me. I wouldn’t think it was worth it. I understand that all films are fantasy, but damn—it ain’t worth risking your life.
I realize that a lot of us probably see films where actors have done needlessly risky stunts, but our own ignorance of how stunts are done (and how the safeguards work), has kept us from being aware of that. We figure, “Oh, they know what they’re doing.”
In this case, I think that seeing a condomless sex act is saying (at least to me) “unsafe sex.” And if you are aware (as I just recently became aware) that some film companies do the HIV screening and the condoms, and the keeping track of who was with whom, while other companies skip the condom thing, you come away with the conclusion that the non-condom companies are less safe, and therefore, more foolish.
And, once again, :grabbing the lapels again: THEY HAD TO SHUT DOWN PRODUCTION!!! See? See? twitch twitch
And while I respect your artist’s work ethic, my only point is that this could have happened even if they had been using condoms. They aren’t 100% effective, and considering the volume of porn coming out of SoCal, sooner or later this was going to happen no matter what precautions were taken. Also, let’s take your stuntman analogy a little further: if they really wanted to make sure everything was 100% safe, they’d stop doing real stunts altogether and do everything with CGI. But that would be so expensive, most movie would be unable to turn a profit, and probably never get made in the first place. Plus, a lot of the audience doesn’t want to see CGI stunts: they want the real thing. Apparently, mandating condom use through out the entire industry would be similarly unprofitable, and similarly unpalatable to audiences. So, they do everything else possible to minimize the risk in having sex sans condom. And it seems, for the most part, to work.
Anyway, I’m kind of glad they shut down all production for two months. Gives me time to catch up.
Okay. Okay. You’re probably right. It just bugged me to see these really scared people on the local LA news talking about how scared they were. Yikes. I guess I’ll never get why it’s an acceptable risk.
No, drugs are illegal. This is, in my view, a great injustice. And here’s just one reason why. I have plenty of others available on request, but I don’t want to hijack this thread too badly.
See, alcohol is legal, so long as it is used responsibly. I can have a beer in the privacy of my home, and the state does not automatically assume I’m going to get shit faced and drive. If I do get shitfaced and drive, they arrest me for driving under the influence, not for simply being under the influence. The law assumes I’m a responsible adult until I act in a manner that shows otherwise.
Similarly, I can use drugs and not freak out and kill my neighbors, or knock over a liquor store, or whatever it is you think drug use makes people do. Just as people can drink responsibly, people can use drugs responsibly. By “responsibly” I mean they can use drugs in such a manner that they do not cause physical or financial harm to anyone other than themselves.
Now, can you give me a rationale why I should be thrown in jail for smoking a joint in the privacy of my home before I go to sleep, but not for drinking a beer under the same circumstances? If the state trusts me to be a responsible adult with beer, why does it not show me the same respect with pot, or any other illegal substance you’d care to name?
And you never did get around to explaining why pornography should be banned, either. Care to back that one up?
The Prostitution Law came into effect 1/1/2002 and, yes, it legalizes both male and female prostitutes (Unfortunately I didn’t find a relevant English cite.)
I am not even going to address the idiotic posts of vanilla. What an idiot.
It doesn’t stop you from judging.
>> Porn without condom sells.
You are a sanctimonious, judgmental, jerk. You don’t seem to understand other people have different tastes when it comes to sex. People like what they like and it is not for you to judge. Sexually I like women and yet I understand that others prefer having sex with men. If you think it is sad that others like what does not appeal to you all I can say is “fuck you”.
I do not care for baseball. For me it is stupid to pay money to see some guys running around chasing a ball. But I have the capacity to understand that other people do like baseball and I do not think less of them.
No false sense of security. It is a risk just like nurses in hospitals and labs take reasonable precautions and yet accidents happen and some become infected with diseases. Everything in life carries risks an, once again, the risk these people were taking was not so great. The precautions they were taking were adequate and the results show it. There are plenty of occupations which are more dangerous and pay less.
no birthday card this November from sailor!
(sniff)
Miller, I said I would happy if there were no porn industry.
It ruins peoples’ lives, i’ve seen that happen,not to mention sometimes the “models” or actresses are not in it willingly.
I am not a senator nor will I ban porn.
It would be a better world without it.
I think that is an obvious fact.
People can live without it; hard to believe, but true.
I think this is funny. It’s like you’re posting on some alternative universe. You know, a universe where my evil double started spouting off about how all those evil porn stars (and those who watch porn) are horrible people who deserve to suffer or something.
But, no ::looks around:: I’m still here on this universe, and I never said any of those things, nor implied them.
On this universe, I am upset because these porn companies had to stop shooting. They had to stop shooting!!! And I don’t like to think that stuntmen (or anyone) should risk their lives for movies.
:shrug:
So, whatever, dude. Just keep on responding to what was said on that alternative universe, if that’s what makes you happy.
What is the fuck with this? Pretty much every industry suffers delays and/or temporary shutdowns due to security concerns. Planes and trains are delayed, meat processing plants are temporarily shut down, construction jobs are delayed or have to be redone, etc. What are you going to do? Shut them all down permanently?
I seriously don’t know what’s bothering you. First, you think I’m a horrible hateful person because you assume I’m condemning porn, now you’re freaking out because I lament that they had to stop shooting for a while. (Several months, I believe. That’s a long time.)
Make up your mind. How can I be hateful and condemning of porn if I am simultaniously upset that they’ve stopped producing it for a while?
I seriously don’t think there is anything more useful to be discussed with you on this subject.
Does anyone know if they had to stop shooting?
Because I have not seen it mentioned anywhere in this thread.
It would be a shame if they had to stop shooting.
Lots of things ruin people’s lives. Alcohol is a big one. Military service is another: how many homeless are living on the streets today who wouldn’t be there is they’d never served in the military? Just last week, a construction worker not far from where I live fell off the bridge he was working on and died. Construction work pretty much ruined his life, and maybe the lives of his wife and kids. It doesn’t mean that the world would be a better place if any of these things “went away,” it just means that nothing in the world is 100% safe. Bad shit happens, no matter what you do for a living.
If a senator were pushing for legislation to outlaw pornography, would you support him? Would you vote in favor of such legislation?
It is neither obvious, nor a fact. If it were, there wouldn’t be any debate on the subject, would there?
So what? I can live without porn, I just don’t want to. People can live without all sorts of things. Books, movies, computers, paintings, nice clothes, jewelery, gourmet food, sports, fancy cars, board games, religion, you name it. None of those are essential to life. We could all get along perfectly well with one outfit of homespun cloth, a shack, and three bowls of gruel a day. Unless you’re living that life, maybe you shouldn’t go around judging what other people do to relax in their spare time.
In the link I posted back on the first page, the article mentioned that industry insiders were calling for a sixty day moratorium on all pornographic productions so they can test everyone and make sure the virus doesn’t spread to any more actors. Don’t know if anyone is actually following that recommendation, though.
and I realize that some of my opinions are coming from this ignorance.
