Hara-kiri. Incorrect?

[Tokyo_Mann]

@KidCharlemagne

All of those cites were from different websites, some certainly seemed reasonably legitimate: some dedicated to history of samurai, and one was a paper on philosophies on suicide. I think there is ample evidence that while the two words have the same denotation, they have different connotations, however subtle.

I should be working, but it’s a slow Monday morning so just for the fun of it, I found the sites you quoted. As outlined at the end, I come to a different conclusion. Of the sites, really only the first is authoritative, and it counters the misperception that there are any nonlinguistic differences between the terms.

The 1st source is from an online encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku and does a pretty good job of explaining seppuku. If you reread the article, it actually counters your argument.

Seppuku is better known in English as hara-kiri (written with the same kanji in reverse order 腹切), which has frequently been mispronounced as “hari-kari.” Of the two terms, hara-kiri is considered more vulgar.(My emphasis.)

This is what Javan, et al have been trying to point out, that while there is a difference in terms, and it’s analogous to the difference between a formal term and slang. The difference between “committing suicide” and “doing yourself in.”

This rather detailed article goes on to explain the different circumstances in which suppuku occurred.

Seppuku was traditionally used as the ultimate protest when one’s own morals stood in the way of executing an order from the master. It was also permissible as a form of repentance when one had committed an unforgivable sin, either by accident or on purpose. Finally, in the feudal period (1190-1867) it was the form of punishment preferred in cases where the subject required an honourable, but necessary, death sentence, such as the 47 Ronin.
There is a great deal of ritual associated with seppuku, particularly when it was done as a protest, or as an honourable punishment. In such cases it might be performed in a spiritually clean temple or similar location, but other locations (e.g. on the field of battle, for members of the losing side) were also common.

It makes sense that there would be more ritual involved when committed as a protest, (if nothing else, thre is more time to plan) but, as you can see from this quote, it is still seppuku, even when done on the battlefield. This directly answers a comment you made earlier:

@KidCharlemagne

but I still think sepukku connotes the rather elaborate ritual of belly-cutting while hara-kiri is a belly cutting that could occur right on the battlefield

2nd quote
http://www.shmeng.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=352
This is just a post on another board in response to an article “Philosophy on Suicide”. So another poster has the same misconception, this cannot be considered authoritative. (And I disagree with the article on what the author calls “the Japanese warrior perspective” which is an oversimplification.)

The 4th quote is the immediate paragraph following the 3rd quote, from
http://www.artelino.com/articles/samurai.asp
a website for art auctions. And again, although they don’t get it quite right, this quote actually supports our arguments that the terms are the same.

Hara-kiri means literally “stomach-cutting” and was the practised form of seppuku. When done outside a battle, it was performed in a formal ceremony.

5th
http://celesstar.osiriscomm.com/anime/otaku.html
Titled Just What Is An “Otaku” Anyway? A Guide To Useful Japanese Terms Found In Anime.
The author mangles other Japanese terms as well, for example: “Kohai - An underclassmen” showing a lack of understand the language.

Of the five quotes from the four sources, the only two which support your argument are the post on another board, which is propagating the same misunderstanding, and then an anime fan who doesn’t have a good grasp of Japanese. I’m not really sure I would want to base my arguments on sources such as this. The best source which you quoted, the encyclopedia, actually refutes your argument.

[Bromley]

Thanks everyone. Seems that the History channel was talking out of it’s ketsu.

A couple of links that I found whilst looking for support are:

Seppuku FAQ. Done by an Aikido guy and seems pretty sensible (although, as I’ve proved, I’m not an expert).

A Practical Guide. An amusing tongue in cheek How-To on the correct way to dispatch yourself. Again, standard IANAWhatever apply).

As support for those that have said that the two terms are exactly interchangable, I did not find a single site that tried to differentiate between them.

[BMalion]

And to further conflate and obfuscate…

I just returned from the Cleveland Public Library where I rented the 1962 film by Masaki Kobayashi. The title on the box reads:

                                            **Harakiri**
                                                          *(seppuku)*

Great film! “a violent and poetic masterpiece… exposes the harsh code of honor of the 17th century samurai.”

box designed by a company called: Home Vision

So that’s anther source to ponder.

Authoritative? Maybe not, but its solid.

[smiling_bandit]

Again, standard IANAWhatever apply).

IANASSW

I am not a suicidal samurai warrior.

[akennett]

@Bromley

Thanks everyone. Seems that the History channel was talking out of it’s ketsu.

Unfortunately, that is too often the case when you get down to the details of their presentations. But they are interesting and do present the over-all themes fairly well.