Hey, you are on an English speaking site dominated by Americans who are mostly Christian. Of course, most atheists here are raised Christian and are reacting to how they were taught. Just the stats. I think that it MAY also have something to do with being told that the way to heaven is through faith. Afterlife, eternal damnation etc, are not a big part of even the most Orthodox Jew’s mindset and a Jewish atheist is not told by his community that he’ll burn in Hell … he’s just told to follow the Laws anyway, that’s what counts most. (I had been the class atheist in Religious school, and my Rabbi didn’t have a problem with it, he liked that I was thinking about God seriously) Doesn’t make for an angry atheist. I think a lot of religions are the same, “follow the rules boy and you’ll still be okay”.
Well, unless you have actual strong evidence that Lolo believes in God, I’d consider it inappropriate to doubt his atheism. It is much like what Lolo did to Poly, saying that Poly didn’t really believe in Christianity. And you want to behave better than Lolo, right? Doubting someone’s professed beliefs is almost invariably highly offensive. I doubt you’d like it if people insisted you didn’t really believe in God, or weren’t really a Libertarian, or weren’t really an objectivist.
Well, I’d rather not go over all the major world religions, personally, and it would prove nothing; you can find that information in any encyclopedia. Other religions rarely come up in religious debates because this is a predominantly Christian country, so most of the theists are Christians; and nonChristian theists seem less likely to witness, either due to being less prevalent, or the lack of an explicit religious directive to do so, or the lack of a belief in dire consequences for nonbelievers. We’ve had one pagan witness thread, a few Islam ones, a few funky indefinable-religion witness threads, and the Jews on ths board frequently put in their two cents on religious debates, but out of all the theists here (both on this board and in this country), it is the Christians who are the most vocal and most concerned with converting others, so they are the most likely to be engaged in debate by atheists. Christianity is so prevalent in this country that it is usually considered the default context for atheist debate here; were we in a predominantly Jewish country, I would be more likely to argue against Yahweh than against Christ.
Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe Jesus was God (they believe He was God’s Son, though, and that he dies for man’s sins, and consider the NT to be the word of God), and in fact many do not consider them Christian because of it. However, since they call themselves Christians no one really seems to want to make a fuss about it, and they are pretty much in agreement on the major Christian bits.
I need to retract something as well, I said Lolo said Poly didn’t really believe in Christianity, but I was thinking of Eternal Student. Whoops. All these vocal newbie atheists/agnostics running around, it’s hard to keep track.
Lolo, If your post for a “friend” was by Eternal Student (as you say it is), YOU ARE NOT TO DO THAT AGAIN. If someone is banned, they are not allowed to post, period, not even by proxy. Post for ES again and your own posting priviledges will likely be revoked.
Hey Seid. I understand I’m on a prodominately American board, and the possibility of getting an ex-non-Christian athiest are hard, but I’d like to try. Also, it’s just that, like I said, most arguments focus solely on Christianity, but I never hear their remarks on Hindi, Buddhism, Shintaoism, and any other religion I can’t spell (for those I have butchered, I deeply appologize). That sort of thing never gets brought up and I’m just curious if it’s simply because these people have never bothered to think about such religions. How can one denounce everything if they only dissagree with one specific religion/sect of beliefs and practices?
I understand your point. But I think the angry atheist IS responding against a particular oppressive religious upbringing, not God in general, and just generalizes to all God-concepts, unable to concieve of other belief systems, or says that since they differ then they are all wrong.
The reasoned nonangry atheist is not disputing against any one faith’s God-portrayal, not Christ or Allah or I AM or whatever. They may or may not be particularly against religion in general. They just personally do not believe in God.
Well, if you don’t believe in the existence of a powerful supernatural being, it kind of means you think all people who do believe in a powerful supernatural being are incorrect, whether they think that being is named Jesus and died on a cross, or whether it is named Ganesh and has an elephant’s head, or whether it is named George and lives in your wastebasket. So I feel I can be an atheist with regard to Georgism even if I don’t know if they worship on Wednesdays and stuff daisies up their nose. Of course, I think that atheists should learn about other religions, but that is because religion is very important to many people and it is good to know a bit about something so many people think is so vital, not because it is necessary to know the worship practices and beliefs of all religions in order to lack belief in a deity.
That tells me then, barring something further from you, that you simply don’t believe in any existence other than what you can sense physically, either directly or indirectly. Is that the case? If so, I have a number of follow-up questions.
You move from a lack of belief in supernatural beings to hard materialism? I find it hard to see where you got that from my post. If you have questions I am willing to answer them, though I don’t know that I would say I don’t beleive in any existence other than what I can sense physically; it depends on how you define “exists”. For example, I think art exists, but in my perceptions, not as something you can measure with a machine.
Hmmm… Okay, Mars. I suppose if we get into a whole Q&A thing in metaphysics, it would diverge so much from the topic of hard atheism that no one would look for the discussion here.
So, I’ll invite you and Gaudere (and anyone else) to answer the questions that I’ll pose in a new thread tomorrow. Fair enough?
El Elvis Rojo, you have an interesting topic of atheists who began following religions other than Christianity. It would likely be better discussed in a new topic. Maybe you should start a new topic with your question.
Doubting someone’s professed beliefs is almost invariably highly offensive. I doubt you’d like it if people insisted you didn’t really believe in God, or weren’t really a Libertarian, or weren’t really an objectivist.