Hard drive backup systems: educate me?

Factual Questions
21

Probably not what you’re looking for, but I do a minimalist backup.

My hard drive is organized so that my personal stuff that needs backing up is under one directory, while programs and re-installable stuff is elsewhere. The personal directory is mostly miscellaneous documents and a lot of photos.

I use a corsair 16GB flash drive and run an update of changed/added files from the personal directory to the flash on friday nights. Saturday morning I pop the flash drive out and stick it elsewhere (my purse).

It’s not a rebootable copy or anything like that. It’s just the stuff I value and don’t want to lose. So far it doesn’t fill one 16gb flash.

22

[QUOTE=misling]
My hard drive is organized so that my personal stuff that needs backing up is under one directory, while programs and re-installable stuff is elsewhere.
[/QUOTE]

What about .ini-type files, browser bookmarks, and the like? I’ve managed to set my data up similarly, using custom directories whenever possible, but some programs seem to insist on installing some of their files in C:\Documents & Settings/Application Data\wherever. So that’s why I just do a full backup; I’d hate to find out I missed something I needed.

23

[QUOTE=Triskadecamus]
A DVD will store a lot of ordinary household data,…

[/QUOTE]

…and can easily be stored offsite. Using a NAS, RAID or other, or a USB drive-- flash or HDD-- ties up the entire unit in doing so. Do you really want your lifework’s backup attached to the computer, to be zapped in the next power surge or lost in your house fire?

Online backups solve this, but you pay-- and pay-- every month for all except miniscule amounts of data.

Though pricy, tape drives, at least, do not tie up so much time.

24

Backup systems – I’ve been in the computer field long enough to accumulate some experience that could be useful here. I’m thinking about long-term storage (unless that’s of no concern). Can you read backup data from years ago, and if not, how will things be in the future?

I have backed up on cassettes (modified audio), floppies (all sizes and formats), tape cartridges (various shapes, sizes, formats), ZIP cartridges, CD, DVD, and hard drives, although I haven’t yet used external USB hard drives. As you can imagine, reading the first few on this list is difficult or impossible now. CD/DVD/Bluray looks like a viable medium for the long term. I would stay away from proprietary tape systems just because they are proprietary.

Any backup scheme that requires special software (or hardware) to read data is not good for the long term. CD/DVD/Bluray looks good as long as you write in a standard directory format.

So here’s my current backup plan. First, I separate system files from data files by partition or drive. The system files are hard to backup and restore, and they work best as an image backup – If my system crashes, I can plug in a system backup disk and be running as fast as it takes to boot up.

You can buy plastic drive cases called “mobile racks” that make ordinary, internal hard drives into plug-replacements (with the power off, not hot). USB external units might be equivalent as long as your system can boot from them, but aren’t USB drives slower than bus-mounted units? That could be a drawback for system files.

Then I back up data files (only) to CDs or DVDs. Haven’t tried Bluray, but it is the next logical size when the prices come down. All my backups are done with standard writing software, not proprietary backup schemes, and that is important!

Now the only problem is: how do you find a file you want to restore with multiple disks lying around? I wrote a program long ago that I still use that keeps a humongous master file of all file names from all (removeable) disks. Whenever I make a new backup disk, I add those file names to the master file. I use a database manager program to search thru records. A master file like this is a must or your data is as good as lost. I imagine there are indexing utilities available in the shareware world that do this, but I haven’t looked for them since mine works so well.

25

Mostly this seems to have been answered with all the low end backup options. I would add that IMHO Acronis True Image Home is the way to go for software, regardless of the hardware you back up to. It will make restoring your data a lot easier, and if you have room on your hard drive you can set up a partition on it that is protected and will allow you to reboot to restore for anything short of a full drive failure. Check it out if you haven’t made up your mind…I think this software is the best out right now.

As for hardware, I don’t know what your budget is or your needs, if you have a couple of extra bucks and you REALLY want to make sure your data is secure (and don’t want to do the outside backup option), one NAS that I recommend to my low end customers is the Terastation by Buffalo systems. This is a network attached storage system that runs at 10/100/1000, and is RAID 5 capable (you’ll give up some overall storage to get RAID 5 but it is WELL worth it). Its a good, solid and reliable system IMHO.

-XT

26

HD’s are cheap I just mirror the “C” and then swap and unplug the #1 HD and Run the #2 HD until I mirror again. Rinse & Repeat. Spreads the wear and tear and is a constant check that all is well with the copy and all files. Keep the off HD in a drawer, as for me, if the house burns down, I have bigger worries. My data is not that important.

But if procrastination is strong, maybe an ‘automatic’ system is best even if pricey…

I have alway been able to take old material and upgrade to newer methods because I do not have that much. Still under 40 GIGs total.
YMMV

27

[QUOTE=Musicat]
Backup systems –
You can buy plastic drive cases called “mobile racks” that make ordinary, internal hard drives into plug-replacements (with the power off, not hot). USB external units might be equivalent as long as your system can boot from them, but aren’t USB drives slower than bus-mounted units? That could be a drawback for system files.

[/QUOTE]

I don’t use a SATA drive although this system has it but the most recent machine I built was predominantly SATA but did have one IDE port.
More interestingly, it had a port for external SATA drives.
I don’t recall if they were hot-swappable but I don’t think that matters greatly either.
The important bit, as far as I can see is that they are readily available and relatively cheap, they are fast - as fast as an internal drive would be, it is only the port that is carried to the case for external connection and you can also boot from that drive where USB may not be quite so flexible. The system just sees it as another SATA drive.

If I had anything I felt needed backing up I would invest in a Blue-Ray drive, as it is an incoming format one would hope that it’s lifetime would be fairly reasonable, the capacity is better than anything else available currently that will give a reasonably secure and easily transportable backup, easy to take offsite in the event of burglary or fire. Once the backup is made any drive will read it whereas an external drive, while so much more convenient and cheaper, is easily destroyed by an electrical surge or percussion.

But as Linus say “Real Men Don’t Do Backups!”

28

[QUOTE=Myglaren]
IIf I had anything I felt needed backing up I would invest in a Blue-Ray drive, as it is an incoming format one would hope that it’s lifetime would be fairly reasonable, the capacity is better than anything else available currently that will give a reasonably secure and easily transportable backup, easy to take offsite in the event of burglary or fire.
[/quote]
However, a recent check of BluRay drives suggests a price of $300 and a blank media price of $15. In contrast, Geeks.com is selling a 20X DVD external writer with lightscribe for 40 and media for .15 each after rebate.

29

Personally I wouldn’t go the CD/DVD/BluRay route myself. For one if you have a substantial amount of data you are going to be using a bunch of media disks. Which IMHO always sucks. For another I don’t think they are reliable. Especially if they sit around for a while. I don’t know what the failure rate is, but I’ve had customers lose critical data when backing up using this method.

If the data isn’t critical I would still recommend at least an external USB or Firewire drive and some decent backup software that is going to image your OS/System data/data. Ghost or Acronis or one of those variants. This will protect both the data AND allow you to restore fairly easily (assuming you do regular backups).

JMHO.

-XT

30

[QUOTE=xtisme]
I don’t think they are reliable.
[/QUOTE]

CDs are quite reliable, bur you’ll need to use a good quality burner and relatively fresh, new CDs (< 18 months after sale, approx, IIRC).

DVDs are not as robust: make bloody sure they are never scratched, and do not store them in CD cases- use DVD cases. You’re also not supposed to store them on the spindle, though I do.

A final note about backup software. Some backup programs use a proprietary format. If the company goes out of business, you’re sorta stuck. Handy Backup-- and perhaps others-- backs up to ZIP files.

31

Why is that?

32

I presume scratches. As I said, personally I wouldn’t back data up to any of them. Mileage may vary though and folks can do what they like. The only thing I back up to CD/DVD is porn for my own part. :slight_smile:

-XT

33

Ah, right.
On that note, I took some DVDs to the electrical superstore as I was buying a new plasma tv and will mainly use it to watch music DVDs. One I put into the DVD player refused to play at all, just got a lot of cracks and bangs and a heavily pixellated image for a few seconds, then complete blackness. I had my laptop with me and it played perfectly in that and has never been a problem on the old DVD/TV but it was quite badly scratched and fingermarked, attributes I ascribe to my daughter and grandchild who don’t treat my CDs and DVDs with the reverence that I do.
I would presume anyone using discs for backup and archival purposes would treat them with the utmost care, or what would be the point?

34

You might want to check out this link: 8 Gig Flashdrive - $25.00. Opinions? - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board
about flashdrives or disks for backuping.

35

Flash drives are even more unreliable (IMHO) than CD/DVD’s. I’ve had any number of them fail for various reasons…or no reason at all. A NAS (or SANs if you have big bucks) is the best solution if your data is actually important. If it’s music files, game data or porn…well, CD/DVD’s work fine for that kind of stuff.

The guy who said that a flash drive is as reliable as a hard drive simply doesn’t know what he’s talking about IMHO…and this has nothing to do with an NAS system in any case. Some of these NAS systems are now fairly cheap. The one from Buffalo I linked to earlier starts at like $400…and you can get a RAID 5 system for like $650.

Or you can put it on a flash drive or CD and hope when you go back to it the stuff that’s important is still there I suppose. Having been burned before with several clients who insisted on this method (to ‘save money’) I am more cautious…if the data is important of course.

-XT

36

Double post

37

[QUOTE=Captain Jinks]
CDs are quite reliable, bur you’ll need to use a good quality burner and relatively fresh, new CDs (< 18 months after sale, approx, IIRC).
[/quote]
Nonsense. The self life of unused CDs is 18 months? Cite?

Nonsense. Although your “not as robust” claim might be another way of saying don’t put all your eggs in one basket, as a single bad scratch potentially affects more data since it’s more dense. Otherwise, the coding and error correction is identical. And cases are sold as disc cases not DVD or CD cases; there is no difference except for the common clone of the black, non-square case used for commercial releases. This case was designed to deliberately occupy more rack space, like the CD longbox. It doesn’t handle discs any better than the square slimbox and it will take up a lot more space in your storage area as it’s taller and about 3 times thicker.

If you examine discs and cases closely, you will see that the hub of the disk has a slightly thicker ring than the data area of the disc. Some cases and all spindles take advantage of this; in a single disk case, the data area is suspended above the case. In a spindle, disk data areas are suspended above each other. They don’t touch if stacked properly.

Spindles have one great advantage in that they store more in the same space, and the disadvantage that random access is not easy and requires disc handling.

Sleeves and paper wraps don’t benefit from the thicker hub ring. However, I have been storing backup CDs for over ten years now, each in a paper envelope, and I have yet to find one that didn’t read properly. If you have a cite for any tests that suggest this is wrong, I’d like to see it.

I will say that keeping CDs/DVDs away from sunlight is a good idea. I have a disc that has been sitting in the windowsill as a test case, and within a few weeks of sunlight, began to change color drastically. I have yet to see if it is readable, but I can’t think that exposure to light is a good thing for longevity.

I heartily agree, which is why I suggested in previous posts to use standard directory formats only.

ZIP compression is so common it will probably be around forever, so that should be OK. But it is an extra, useless layer if you are storing JPG or MPG files, which are already compressed. ZIPping them may actually make them bigger and it takes time to process either way.

38

Hard disks just beat other media on price and convenience. Round here, DVD-Rs cost about $0.04 per GB but, leaving aside reliability concerns, if your backup needs are anything beyond about 25GB they’re just awkwardly small. You might as well use one of the free online backup services.

DLT/LTO tapes come in at about $0.13 per GB, but once you add in the cost of the tape drive that can easily reach $2 per GB unless you are backing up terabytes of data. Hard disks cost $0.30 to $0.40 per GB. But they are ultra-convenient - no special software or procedure required to read/write to them. And hard disks continually get bigger and cheaper, while tapes and DVDs plateau at the same size for years between jumps, and the jumps require new hardware and new media.

39

i wonder why people buy the more expensive external hard drives,when an internal ones used outside with a longer cable seem fine from my experience.

40

[QUOTE=oldboy]
i wonder why people buy the more expensive external hard drives,when an internal ones used outside with a longer cable seem fine from my experience.
[/QUOTE]

They are not as pretty and look downright scary to some folks.