**
This, of course, depends on how much cam overlap you have. If you have a lot of cam overlap, and open exhaust, half your intake charge goes right out your tail pipe before the exhaust valve slams shut. It’ll sound like its making horse power,but…
This is more prevelant at low speed, like off the line. High end, you almost always get a boost out of it anyway.
**
This is a pretty blatant hijaak, but I just wanted to say, I feel for you on this one. It used to be that, if you saw some one on a harley, the one thing you could count on is that they knew what they were doing. That just isn’t the case anymore. Too many rich urban bikers go out and plunk down 20k on a high-end piece of machinery that takes a non-trivial amount of skill to use. I don’t have any real suggestions about what to do about it, but, after 15 years of being associated with (in the minds of non-bikers) squids, I wish you luck changing public opinion. **
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Don’t get me wrong, I like the fact that Yuppies are riding harleys. Maybe a little selfish, but for one, the cops leave us alone now, and resturants will serve us. And, in a few years, when the fad dies down, there will be a lot of cheap softails with low miles available. There has to be some scrap value for all the billet aluminum gee-gaws I will undoubtably pull off. I love the way a softail handles. You almost don’t have to put your feet down at the lights its so balanced. Of course, it has driven the price up a bit, but I ride an ugly old FLH shovelhead that no yuppie would be caught dead on.
I thought the purpose of straight pipes was to improve high and mid range performace? At the expense of lowend performance. I figure a bike that can pull tree trunks can probably give up a little on the low end…
I came off a little harsh. I’ve seen too many sport bike riders who had too little respect for the dangers involved in motorcycling; who didn’t acquire the skills they’d need to stay alive before getting on the back of a very powerful, very touchy, and very unforgiving motorcycle. Now the same thing is happening in a different part of cycling, and it sort of bugs me. I mean, hey, they’re still comrades and all, but it still bothers me. There are a lot of people who seem to be willing to bring back the Danforth Bill, and an increase in the deaths of middle aged breadwinners might be enough to do it.
Obviously, a lot of the people who currently ride are responsible adults who did take the time to learn what they are doing, but a small majority of morons can ruin it for the rest of us.
I know exactly whay you mean about picking up the bikes cheap, though.
Theres a whole bunch more, thast what I found in just a few minutes. There should be enough links here to piss anyone off. The way I see it, is that at best, its a wash. About a Fifty Fifty split on weather it will kill you or save you, and Personally I think it leans it towards the no helmet is better side by at least a little, if not a lot. By any means it is not a simple black and white argument. There are a lot of factors that go into motorcycle safety.
If you want more info, let me know
I thought thats what I said. Even at high speed though, you are better off with correct backpressure, not just less. On old bikes, there was little or no cam overlap. By the time the intake valve opened, the exhaust valve was shut. Shovels and Pans are that way, plus, they dont flow all that great anyway. On newer bikes, the exaust is still open for a short time after the intake. The exhaust is used to suck gas into the chamber, but if if there is too little backpressure, its sucks it right out the pipe. You can get around this a bit by re-jetting the carb a bit richer to accomidate for this, but your fuel economy goes down, and you still arent getting the best out of your bike. At mid to high rpm, it is less prevelant, as the amount of time the exaust is open is minimal. Cars are the same way. My old corvair I put open exhaust on, and turned the air cleaner cover upside down, and instant horsepower boost. Try that with modern engine and you could wind up with a real problem. If I had one of the new evos, I would re-cam and re-carb before putting open pipes on. Even then, I wouldnt go with cheepo pipes, but something that had actually been dyno tested. Actually I’d probabbly go with the stuff recomended in here, including the expensive head work. Jerry Branch is the god of harley head work. I have a book at home that talks about porting and polishing and it says"don’t try to be Jerry Branch unless you are Jerry Branch"
I’m sick of motorcycles and their unnecessarily loud tail pipes. I’m also sick of being woken up by some drunken yahoo riding his Harley through my neighborhood at two in the morning. It doesn’t even have to be in my neighborhood - you can hear that sound for MILES! They have little respect for others on the road or in their homes at night. I have come to the conclusion that most people on motorcycles under the age of 40 are assholes, whether they’re riding harleys or not. Therefore, I take every opportunity to make their lives miserable on the highways: slowing down, preventing them from passing, and when in gridlock, not leaving enough room for them to weave between lanes or travel in the breakdown lane. Nothing dangerous or aggressive, but enough to compensate for the inconveneience and pain of having to listen to them all summer long.
I also live in a state with a popular “Bike Week”. It turns our state into a “wretched hive of scum and villainy”. blech.
I don’t know how to classify myself here. I certainly don’t fit the classic Harley stereotype. Short hair, no beard, certainly not rough and tough looking (although I do have a tattoo on my arm). But then again I certainly don’t fit the Yuppie stereotype either of designer everything and lots of money to burn (although I do have a cell phone). I didn’t buy a Harley as a status symbol. I bought one because I like them, I like the way they look and I like the way they sound. I’m not crazy about the stigma of riding a foreign bike, and I can’t stand the crotch rockets. Personally, I’ve seen more people driving like idiots on those than any other kind of bike. But I also don’t ride everyday, although I do ride as much as I can (sometimes it’s just not convienient to be on a bike). I’m not just a weekend warrior, but I’m also not a hardcore biker who rides year around. As I’m reading these posts, seems like if you are the classic stereotypical Harley rider you’ll get called “scum” or “creepy” and if you aren’t and ride you are some kind of wanna-be. Go figure, I can spend the money I make on whatever I want. Damn this capitalistic society.
As for safety, if one is overly concerned about safety, they wouldn’t be on a motorcycle in the first place. So it comes down to what makes you a better driver. If you are relying on soley loud pipes or a helmet for protection, you shouldn’t be on a bike. Complacency is a killer, riding is an experience every time. It certainly is nothing like driving a car. If having loud pipes on your bike is going to distract YOU from being alert then that is a problem. If a helmet is so uncomfortable and restraining for YOU (as it is for me) that it inhibits your alertness and comfort riding then that is a problem.
People must know is their own limitations and the limitations of their bike. I have limitations that I’ve set for myself. Once I feel I am experienced and comfortable enough, I will remove those limitations. Unfortunately, many people don’t do this. I took the Illinois Motorcycle Rider’s course (an excellent 20 hour training class) and I was talking to another person there. When discussing helmets, he swore by them. He had bought some kind of high performance bike before the class without even know how to drive it. So the three times he went down on it going 30-50 mph, he claimed it saved his life which very well may have been true. But if he knew how to ride in the first place, he may have never had to find out that way. Quite frankly, the moron was lucky to be alive, helmet or not, loud pipes or not.
As you can see by the various posts, riding is a very individual thing. This includes what you wear, how you sound and what you sit on.
Hey, I must be an asshole then! I’m only 29! Thanks for the clarification evilhanz! And speaking of, what on earth does driving like one accomplish evilhanz? Do you feel vindicated now? Do you sleep better? People like you scare me. I can control myself and my bike, but can’t control other people on the road. And someone with such a lack of respect like yourself is a menance to every biker out there. Everything you mentioned there is dangerous and aggresive to someone on a motorcycle. You think you are being cute, but you most certainly are not. Either you or going to cause an accident or someone is going to have a major case of road rage and drag you out of your car and introduce your face to their exhaust pipe. Yes, the one that makes all that noise!
Who appointed you judge and jury? You gonna endanger lives just to try to “get back” at someone because they run open pipes? The death penalty for trying to make our bikes a little safer. Yeah, right. Be carefull who you try this crap with, I have seen people get thier teeth kicked in for less than what you are talking about,and or go to prison. You cause a wreck that winds up killing someone, you have a real problem.
I suggest that your loosen your helmet straps and reread my original post. I would never advocate illegal activity and I would never do anything to deliberately endanger the lives of those in my car or others on the road. Tell me bdgr, how does slowing down, preventing bikes from weaving between cars, or discouraging bikes from using the breakdown lane to get around slow-moving traffic violate the law? I specifically advocated non-agressive, non-dangerous actions. Subtle, minor annoyances, not “road-rage”.
A “little” safer? How much? Is there any data which shows that open pipes prevent accidents? If anything, these loud bikes violate quality of life ordinances. They cause tremendous noise within a 1 mile radius and are downright painful within a few dozen yards. In many communities, including my own, operating your bike in this way is illegal. Unfortunately, lax enforcement prevails. You need to find other means of protecting yourselves on the road. Helmets and quick reflexes are a good place to start. You’re assuming a great deal of risk when you ride one of those things. Tell me, how many times have you had to lay your bike down with no car in sight? Even the older, responsible bikers I work with have done it many times - and they’ve been riding since before I was born.
And you were no doubt cheering right along. You’re not helping me change my opinion of the young, ultra-macho biker class.
At best, I’m suggesting that other non-bikers such as myself drive like old ladies in your presence. Bikers HATE that - and I know it - coz’ they can’t let loose with ear-piercing decibels and zoom down the highway at excessive speeds. It is a small measure of satisfaction. When bikers show some respect for the rules of the road and the laws of the communtiies in which they ride, I won’t think twice about seeing them in my rear-view mirror - and neither will anyone else.
What do you have to stay to the people you annoy, or wake up in the middle of the night, or startle on the road when you throttle on by? Should they just “get over it”? Why shouldn’t they be annoyed or angered? I haven’t yet heard a justifiable reason. Tell me why I should be glad to hear your obnoxious bike in the middle of the night. So rather than berate me, let’s hear some facts.
I have to smile at the old Brit bikes post, they were terrible machines, even in their day but that was down to lack of proper development.
Most of them were originally designed for the roads of 1950’s England, and in one or two cases even earlier.
Ride them at the speeds they were originally made for, up to and no more than 50 mph and they were reliable with handling that was capable at those speeds.
Trouble was as the Japs rolled in, all the Brit factories did was rejig existing engines, taking them out to the point of unreliability, the 500 Triumph twin of the early '60’s was fine until more was asked of it when the lubrication system became less then adequate.
As far as Brit bikes go the AJS twin with its triple bearing main shaft and centre feed oilways was far better than either the BSA or Triumph 500 twins of the time.
The Royal Enfield Meteor was a good machine in its day but the ultimate if you ever lay hands on is , of course, the Vincent Black Shadow which is still smooth and very useful around 90mph.
I think one of my favourite bikes is the old Honda 400/4 which was roundly criticised for having the top end running in aluminium rather than hard steel/posphor bronze bushes, they all said it would wear out rapid, yet I still see them running twenty or more years later.
As for crash hats, if they can protect a rider in a 150mph+ slide and impact from following machines on a racetrack without neck-twisting or whiplash then they are good enough for me.
Whilst I look at some of these reports that state injuries can be caused by crash hats it still cannot compare the the number they reduce or prevent, and it seems that all European governments agree with the various research institutes such as RoSPA and have made them compulsory, even Italy.
Boy, you reallly do like bashing other peoples machines don’t you. They were actually great machines, just built on a differant design philosophy.
the ones in the 50s were, and were very reliable, for thier day, at any speed you could get them too. For thier time.
In the early 60s, triumph bsa both came out with the new unit 650 twin. It was new design, not some old 50s design,although it shared a lot of the same design philosophy. The 500 unit twins were kind of a low end version of the bike. I have re-built many brit bikes, thats what I did for a living(we worked on eveything, but brit restoration was our specialty), and never saw a brit that died from inadequate lubrication(unless it was run out of oil). You see, what killed the brit bikes mass marketing. Brit bikes had three problems that made it hard to compete with the japs
[ol]
[li]Price, the brit bikes were expensive to produce, like many industries they just couldnt compete with the japs price wise.[/li][li]Oil leaks. Brits, like earlly harleys, leak oil. This was not a problem to the hard-core motorcyclist, but the average joe wouldnt put up with it…[/li][li]Electrics. Lucas, the prince of darkness, designed all the electrics on the bikes. And they sucked.[/li][/ol]
One of the reasons the brit bikes were more expensive was that they were designed to be re-built forever. The japs made bikes that would run reliably for long time, and are then junked. Theres nothing wrong with this, for the general consumer this is fine, but the brits, and harley always built the machines so that your grandchildren can inherit them. The japs realized that most people dont care about this, made reliable, disposable engines. IT was cheaper to make, and they didnt leak oil, so they won. Period.
The AJS/matchlesses were neat machines, but were dying out by this time. The couldnt compare with the newer design of the BSA and Triumph and Norton comandos .
I love the vincent, Ive worked on them, and they are a work of art. I even named my son after them(really…his birth certifcate has his name as vincent blackshadow), but they are dangerous machines high speed. They could do 125 mph right out the box, and the black lightning even faster, but they didnt handle, and they didnt stop
In 1967, the BSA spitfire was the superbike of its time. It was the fastest production bike in its class, it handled like a wet dream and had great brakes(for its time, of course). It was very reliable. I had mine up past 100 many times and I wieghed around 285 pounds at the time(thats when I was thin)It was my daily transport, I didnt own a running car. I have also ridden the triumph bonnevilles for that era, and the handleling was superb. The jap bikes of the 60s couldnt compare handling wise.
I speak from experiance, not something I read in book somewhere. I have actually gotten my greasy paws on some of these old bikes many people only have seen in magaizines. I even owned an old russian bike. The old man I worked on was an old racer from the 60s, and used to run the barstow to vegas.
What I have found over the years, is that there are good things about most bikes out there. and there are bad things. There is no “Best” bike. Putting down other peoples bikes is a little like putting down somebodys girlfriend. You just gonna piss them off, you wont convince them, because its all subjective. My 1974 Harley davidson FLH is not on my list of finest motorcycles ever built. It leaks, it requires a lot of attention to keep on the road, and there are deffinately better handling bikes out there. Why do I ride it? Because I like it. I like tinkering with it. I like the way it rides, and I like the way It looks. Its a blast, but I certainly wouldnt let a novice ride it. In the year I have been here, you are the only one who I have seen pull the your bike sucks crap.
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As for crash hats, if they can protect a rider in a 150mph+ slide and impact from following machines on a racetrack without neck-twisting or whiplash then they are good enough for me.
Whilst I look at some of these reports that state injuries can be caused by crash hats it still cannot compare the the number they reduce or prevent, and it seems that all European governments agree with the various research institutes such as RoSPA and have made them compulsory, even Italy. **
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Theres really no point in arguing the helmet/no helmet thing. Dropzone provided a report, I provided one that disputed it, plus a bunch more… I’m sure you can provide some that say mine are wrong. It not something that can be proven, because at best its really close either way. As one of the reports I posted stated, the use of helmets had no affect on motorcyle fatalities statistically. Maybe its pretty much a wash. But your not gonna convince me, and I doubt I am gonna convince you. Just realize that when someone doesnt wear lid, it isn’t neccesarily out of ignorance, but out of a differance of opinion.
HOW am I proving your point? By calling attention to your weak generalizations that every biker under 40 is an asshole? That only proves that the immature name calling fits the personality of one who feels it is well within their rights to advocate revenge using a 4,000 vehicle. Who is trying to be the macho one here, who is trying to be the tough guy? Who are you to judge who is driving safely and who isn’t? My Harley is stock, but it is loud enough to set off a car alarm if I’m driving down a narrow street. Am I going to have “trouble” with you?
Bdgr and I did not threaten you or advocate violence in anyway, nor did we generalize groups of people or resort to the crude and immature level of name calling. In fact, what we are saying is that you, despite your own obvious ignorance, are driving unsafely and are possibly going to get yourself hurt by someone with a hot temper. If YOU read the posts here instead of just spouting off, you would have gotten that threw your skull.
Here is what you’ve said so far:
You are not a law enforcement agent and your willful acts of negligence are going to hurt someone. Preventing someone from passing is illegal. Slowing down purposely in front of someone is is dangerous. ESPECIALLY for those of us who are running on two wheels. We do not have the luxury of 4 wheel stability when braking, air bags and seat belts.
If you weren’t too busy feeling all high and mighty about your one man crusade to stop us evil, no good thugs on bikes and had actually read what we were saying, you would have noticed that niether bdgr nor I wear helmets. Is that not driving safely enough for you? Are we going to have “trouble” you now?
Who are you to advocate anything? So you get to annoy people because you neither understand what it’s like to ride a bike nor have the capicity to do nothing but stereo-type everyone on a motorcycle?
Cites please. I would need cites on these quality of life ordinances, studies on decibel and pain factors on motorcycles done at close range and at a mile radius, and the laws that specifically says that loud pipes are illegal and at what decibel level is acceptable. This is GD, and if you are going to make such claims, I would like to see some proof.
More assumptions, stereo-types and generalazations. I would be interested to see what you have to say about blacks, Jews, homosexuals, construction workers, Catholic priests or Rottweilers. I’m sure you are just chock full of ideas.
Respect for the rules in your eyes? It’s obvious you have no respect for either them nor the laws yourself, you are just hell bent on getting your minor satisfactions.
Here is a novel idea. Don’t take the law into your own hands. If it bothers you that much, call the police. If they don’t respond, go to your local government agencies. Take the proper routes to make a change if it bothers you so much. But in the meantime on the road, have respect and follow the laws yourself.
Hate to tell you this, but we have a right to pass you if you are driving slow and we have a duty to outselves to be heard and noticed. Why should those of us who are concerned about our safety and driving within the rules of the road have to deal with intollerant “people” like yourself who have stated numerous times that they exact revenge on whomever is on a motorcycle near them?
I’ve seen a good few horrors in he Britbike game, with barrel studs snapping, flanges cracking on barrels (you should be able to work out which bike that last is) rubbish oil systems, especially on the Triumphs where the bush on the end of the crankshaft used to wear and starve the bearing journals.
The Seeley conversions coupled with proper filters and oil coolers transformed them, add to the fact that much of the oil leakage could be pretty much cured by levelling the crankcases using engineers blue and flat plates and it makes me wonder why they didn’t do these relatively simple improvements in the manufacturing stages.
When the Japs came around they were a revelation, they started, most of them stopped reasonably and you didn’t have to carry a can of oil with you on weekend trips, plus they had shiny chrome(which soon rotted if not cared for lovingly)
I recognise Brit bikes for what they were, along with the highly inflammable electrics of the Italians and the sheer clunkiness of the Harleys.
I don’t hanker after those old days since those bikes were simply awful, modern bikes work with minimal maintenance over mileages that would require four or more stripdowns of Brit bikes.
I think I was lucky to get out of the 70’s with all my teeth fillings intact after experimenting with Nortons and Bonnevilles, and these were the best developed of Britbikes, they were still poor compared to the riceburners.
Don’t get me started on “honky” cab drivers either - every time one of them honks at me, I say “screw you, asshole! I won’t ride with someone who tries to run me down on every other corner!”
BTW, that honking to attract passengers - illegal in Chicago. Just so you know.
Hmmm…Makes me wonder what sort of oil you were running, and how often you changed it. Thats not normal for a trumpet.
On triumphs, most of the oil leaks were the pushrod tube seals, the oiler banjos at the rocker boxes, and the valve adjustment caps. All easy fixes. The cases shouldnt leak unless the cases have been split a few too many times. In that case, a bit of yamabond usually takes care of it. They were pretty well fitted at the factory.
BSA’s usually leak around the oil pickup on the bottom of the case(the little four bolt plate.) or the valve cover gasket…
Both of these would of course, puke oil like the exxon valdez if they became wetsumped from not being run in a while. The worst of these was Norton, when they wetsumped it was a major pain just to start them.
I love those old bikes, but then again, I like working on my machine. While I can appreciate the jap bikes for what they are, I just cant get enthused about them. I’ve seen my share of jap bikes(not very old, either) totalled because the expense of rebuilding outways the value of the bike. This doesnt happen with brits, guzzis, ducatis, or harleys. My bike is like a member of my family, I cant imagine having to dispose of it like a dead fridge.
In a way, they are poor compared to modern jap bikes, or modern brit bikes for that matter. They were in many ways superior to the japs of thier time, however, and were hardly poor. Just differant.
I notice that Kawasaki did their copy of the Triumph twin, didn’t leak, castings were way better quality, started fairly easily and they improved the gear selection by changing from an indexed plate to a selector barrel.
I think it was the W7 or something like it, but it just went to prove that the existing design could have worked far better if only the factories had done some very basic rework.
It was the old British industrial disease, try to get a maximum return out of worthless plant rather than spend the money on investment.
Triumph did have a four cylinder machine up and running as a prototype, it was everything a British bike should be, and better than anything made by the Japs, a logical development of the Trident but by then the banks pulled the money.
You can see it, there’s four in existance I believe, at the Bike Museum in Birmingham UK.
In a way that is my beef with Brit bikes, the talent was there to design them but the industry would not move with the times, building to ancient specs and practices, which was true of much of British engineering.
How many differant thread standards did BSA use on its machines, at least half a dozen, Whit, UNC, UNF, AF, BSP, BA, strewth!
loud pipes do not save lives. i agree with gratefuldavidson, people have em 'cause they sound cool. it is not just harleys, either. the sportbikes can make a awful wail when uncorked. you should here a properly tuned 4 cyl. 2-stroke around 15000 rpm. WOW! TALK ABOUT DEAFENING! plus you get the smoke to boot! (i admit, some of my bikes run open exhaust for weight saving, increased flow and that “sweet sound”, but i am very careful where and how i ride them)
the stance of the AMA (american motorcyclist association- fighting for the right to ride) is " Loud pipes cost rights". the motorcycle community has to face prejudice and bigotry from many places for many reasons. irritating others by overly loud pipes in inappropriate situations should not be added to the list. i would recommend you visit the AMA site (should be easy to find) and see what they have to say about it. it is a good source for others interested in motorcycling who want more information about the sport.
Personally, I don’t have em 'cause the sound cool. I find that statement insulting. Have you even read what the rest of us have said about it? I had them save me from being run over just last week, if you read my previous msg you I describe it pretty well.
I couldn’t give a rats ass about what the AMA has to say. I’m not a member, and have no desire to be. I’m not going to put my life at risk so they can look better. The AMA has always has been more image consience then concerned with thier members rights. We have lawyers to protect our rights, the AMA can kiss my ass.