Why would that have to be true? That no one had ever survived the killing curse only tells us that there’s never been a known instance of a mother sacrificing themselves to save their baby from Avada Kedavra. That doesn’t mean there aren’t other kids running around with their mother’s protection in their veins, just that they aren’t in the unique position that HP is as “The Chosen One”. I think HP was born with the goodness of heart, bravery, etc to defeat Voldemort and that the circumstances that the prophesy describes provide him with the tools and protection he needs to do so. The book says all along that he doesn’t have any particularly exceptional skills or magic, he picks them up along the way in the form of helpers and tools. He just happens to be the person who has the ingenuity and strength of character to do so.
Had Voldemort attacked any children himself before that, or did he leave that to Fenrir Greyback or his other minions?
So you think that during V.'s entire reign of terror, no parent had thrown themselves in front of their child to block the A.V. curse? I feel like that would have happened . . . however, it’s possible that V. just left a lot of the killing to his minions, and HP was one of the few he had personally attempted to kill.
So you think the prophecy granted him the ability to defeat V? Do prophecies usually do that? I thought they were just visions into the future.
Gestalt.
I think the main part of it is that Lily had a choice, whereas James didn’t. James died trying to protect Harry, too, but James never had the choice to run away, whereas Lily did. I suspect that Voldy almost never gave his murder victims the option to flee, so the ancient magic would almost never have been invoked.
If you want to get into it too much, it’s worse than that, because it isn’t just specific to mothers, since apparently Harry’s sacrifice is ALSO enough to protect pretty much everyone in the wizarding world. Again, if that were a magical “thing” you’d think that it’d get used a heck of a lot more often given how many people die protecting loved ones in this world.
Rowling had said something in interviews before how it was an important plot point that Lily’s wand was very good for charms… did she forget to explain this further???
I didn’t mention it before, but Narcissa Malfoy was definately a pretty decent character in the series. It’s quite apparent in Book 6 that her loyalty is really to family more than to the ideology her family has chosen, and her betrayal of Voldemort at the end is truly important: even more critical to the story, I suppose, than Wormtail’s. It’s worth noting that Voldemort could have had his victory countless times over if he had just gotten over the idea of having to prove himself superior to Harry: any other DE could have wiped Harry out without any fear of protective magic or backfire. Had Narcissa revealed that Voldy’s killing curse had actually failed AGAIN, he might have either finally wised up, or else at least tried again (and I’m not sure, but I think a second killing curse would have simply outright killed Harry at that point if Harry was without a wand to raise against Voldemort) .
No, remember, it’s all about love, the love of his mother that flows through his veins.
No parent ever loved their child before Harry.
Was anyone disappointed with the end battle? Voldemort has been touted as a very powerful wizard who knows magic that even Dumbledore did not know. I sort of expected some really cool dueling between Harry and Voldy. Is it too much to ask for a little bit of new magic that we hadn’t seen before. We know it’s possible to create your own spells (i.e. Snape’s Sectum Sempra spell) But instead it was just Avada Kedavra vs. Expelliarmus yet again. sigh I get that all great final battles have to have a certain degree of duologue whereby the adversaries circle each other locked eye to eye before fighting to the death, but it just felt like it was all over to quickly for me!
I was reminded slightly of the Heroes finale. Sylar had been rumored to have killed dozens of other mutants and acquired their powers. In essence he was a super-mutant and could have easily wiped out all the other Heroes but instead decided to converse with them for a bit and then before you know it, BLAM, he’s dead, without much fighting.
I’ve been thinking about the George/Fred bit. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this the first book where we see them split up to take on tasks? I mean, they are in scenes in earlier books and are always together and finishing each others sentences and such, working together, etc. In this one, their assignments seemed to always split them up. Separate for the getaway on broomsticks, only Fred on the radio station, different assignments at the battle…
He had a minion who was able and very willing to kill children in Fenrir Greyback. We know that Fenrir Greyback was around and biting children when Voldemort was in power, because Remus Lupin (born 1960) was bitten as a child by Fenrir Greyback. The thought of your child being eaten alive by a werewolf is probably a more effective threat to most parents than just the thought of the child being killed. The prejudice that some members of the wizarding community have against werewolves would make the threat even more terrible. Letting Fenrir kill any children that the Death Eaters thought needed killing would also be a way to keep him loyal to the Death Eaters, who were probably at least as anti-werewolf as the wizarding community in general (based on their attitudes toward magical creatures).
Given that, why should Voldemort kill children himself? Voldemort showed that he was quite willing to delegate the task of killing an underage wizard when he made Wormtail kill Cedric Diggory. Harry is an exception- Voldemort wanted to kill him the first time because of the part of the prophecy he had heard, and wanted to kill him after that to prove himself.
Aaah, good point Anne.
Gestalt
Regarding all of the “no parent ever tried to protect their children and thus never stopped the Avadra Kevadra curse” meme going on here…
Remember that Harry was probably the only child Voldemort ever tried specifically and deliberately to kill. Sure he and his followers killed lots of kids, but always as collateral damage or after their parents had already died (ie, wiping out a line). In the case of the Potters, Voldemort didn’t actually care about killing James and/or Lilly, all he wanted to do was stop the prophecy by killing Harry. He probably wasn’t displeased about getting to kill James & Lilly, but if the odds of killing Harry were better by not killing his parents, V probably would have left them alive.
Edited to Add: Of course I saw that Anne had said all this before me. I just felt like saying it again…
Very pragmatic theory: the big 3 wandered around for so long in order for Tonks to have her baby (not that the characters knew that or planned that, I meant Rowling).
I don’t think that Voldemort targeted children prior to the prophecy, so perhaps the situation didn’t arise. Harry was the Chosen One simply because all 3 elements were present: Voldy attempting murder; Lily protecting Harry and Harry. No one else had the opportunity to become a human horcrux because V hadn’t done this with the mix of Lily providing protection. It’s not that no parent ever loved their child before. IMO, if Molly had died to save Ginny when Ginny was a baby-she wouldn’t have been the Chose one, because of the prophecy. But neither would Ron, because he was born in the wrong month. Am I making sense?
It’s not just that she died for Harry, it’s that she died after being given the choice to run. That’s why James’s similar sacrifice didn’t give any protection; he was going to be killed whatever happened. Voldemort gave Lily the chance to step aside and not be harmed.
I can imagine lots of parents dying to protect their children. I imagine a situation where the parent is being let free is a lot more rare (though probably would still happen, so it doesn’t let JK off the hook entirely).
What has bothered me the most is that they make this huge deal out of “vetting” the other characters when meeting them again after an absence - the newcomer is expected to be able to provide proof he is who he really claims.
Lupin goes around acting strange and upset, and no one thinks that Lupin or Tonks could be an imposter??
I thought Lupin was an imposter, reading it. Pretty much all the information he gave is stuff Voldemort could easily find out.
My thought was simply that Rowling wanted this book to take place over a full year as the previous 6 did. Unlike in the previous books though, Harry and friends were so out matched by Volde this time they couldn’t really do much after Volde’s return without attracting a bunch of death eaters, so basically Rowling let them sit around in the woods for a few months and burn time.
Also Lily was defenseless when she tried to protect Harry. It’s stated Harry’s similar “death” provides a similar protection partly because he didn’t try and defend himself against Volde’s death curse. Most other wizarding parents of Volde’s victims would probably have their wands on them, and so attempt a better defense then just standing in the way.
I think they’re probably connected issues. If Lily had been standing there blasting curses, then Voldemort would have had a reason to kill her, and thus she wouldn’t be given the choice.
from what i understood ms rowling to say in interview…
due to snape asking tommy to spare lily. tommy made an exception to his m.o…
he would usually just go in and blast everyone. he decided (hhhmmm, snape must have been really important in the deatheaters.) that it really didn’t make a difference if he let lily live for snape.
as he mentioned at the end of d.h. he didn’t think it made a difference to snape either.
so the only time he gave a person a choice… it backfired on him.
he gave lily three chances to run. she stood firm and harry was spared.
later harry had a chance to run. he stood firm and those in the castle were spared.
the other wee fellow that could have been in the prophecy was neville. i do believe his grandmother would have been killed like james. don’t think that tommy-boy would have given her a chance to run. neville would not have had the same protection.
snape wanting to save lily and asking tommy for her was the one who set up harry’s blood protection.
No. The book categorically states that the prophecy grants nothing, nor is the prophecy necessarily true. I’m only saying that the circumstances were described in the prophecy.