Also, Dumbledore did not realize, as we do, that it is a book, and therefore there is only one artifact of Ravenclaw’s to consider. Riddle came across the cup by accident, and it was still only a theory that he had used something of Ravenclaw’s. Harry didn’t even figure out that it was at Hogwarts (because he didn’t see that there was a chapter titled “The Battle of Hogwarts.” Why do these characters never look at the table of contents?) until Voldemort planned his itinerary after discovering the vault had been burgled.
ETA: Also, it would be a bad idea to open up the Chamber of Secrets when he came to apply for a job. While he might have been strolling down memory lane in the 7th Floor corridor, he could hardly be doing so in the Girls’ Room.
Right. I would have to check again, but my recollection is this:
He knows that the horcrux is something of Ravenclaw’s (and he starts thinking about the diadem after he sees the diadem replica attempted by Xenophilius Lovegood). The best place to find out about things from Ravenclaw is at Hogwarts. He goes there for information first, and while he’s there, realizes that it must be hidden there.
Actually, I think he considered it, but didn’t decide to go until he had a vision of Voldemort screaming over the loss of the cup. Then Harry saw that Voldemort knew he was after horcruxes, and planned to keep Nagini with him, fly to the cave, his mother’s old house, and then to Hogwarts. Harry saw the itinerary in his head, and so figured out that the last horcrux was at the school.
I’m not buying that Ron picked up Parseltongue just from Harry’s whispering to the pendant.
I think Ron and Hermione snuck off to the Potions closet for a quick snog (and maybe shag). In their groping they knocked a box of basilisk fangs off the shelf. (Slughorn had boxed them up for a quick sale on the grey market). They quickly contrived the “Ron learned Parseltongue” story so no one would suspect.
After having finished Book Seven, I decided to go back to Book One and start over. In re-reading Chamber of Secrets I found this. (Background: In Filch’s office, Harry discovers an envelope from Kwikspell, a magic correspondence course for Squibs).
The mirror shows you what you desire the most. Harry desired that his parents be alive, and that’s what he saw. What does Dumbledore desire more: that his sister were alive, or that Grindelwald, and not he, were the one to land the killing blow?
I think it might be the latter, and that’s why he does not understand others’ fascination with the mirror. While seeing his sister alive might still break his heart, at least he’d see it as some sort of memory, or fantasy, or vision of what could never be. Disappointing, to be sure. But if the mirror shows Grindelwald’s curse as the fatal one, he would know that the mirror is only showing him what he wants to believe, and not the truth. Every time he looks in the mirror would be torture, a reminder that he will never know what happened that day.
Re: How the Sword returned to the Hat
Who cares? I’m still unsure how the Philosopher/Sorcerer’s Stone ended up in Harry’s pocket.
Which reminds me… Just what had Aberforth Dumbledore done with or to goats to (a) make it his Patronus (DH), and (b) get him prosecuted by the Ministry for “practicing inappropriate charms on a goat” (Gof), and (c) cause his pub, The Hog’s Head (not goat), to “smell strongly of goat” (OotP)?
Goodness, you guys read fast. I just finished it 10 minutes ago. I enjoyed it thoroughly, but I’m still catching my breath. It was such a frenetic book and I did think she went a teensy bit overboard with the convoluted minutia of magical artifacts. Horcruxes, hallows, legends, stones, wand loyalty, spells, counter-spells, deep magic, deeper magic …phew. I got a little impatient for more scenes like the dragon’s escape, Ron’s return, Dumbledore’s failings and the revelation of Snape’s patronis.
Eh, maybe I’m just easily confused. I know I’ll be reading the whole series over again. Slowly this time.
Now that this thread is on page 9, it’s hard for me to say much of anything that’s new, but I’m going to try.
First, I liked how towards the end of the book (and the series, come to think of it)the Malfoys were so concerned with their son, as they realized what danger he was in. They were no longer two of Voldemort’s faceless, obedient servants, but Rowling also avoided the temptation to give them some kind of heroic gesture, some final futile act to show that they were actually good guys all along. Instead, they were depicted as two people who slowly realize that they were in over their heads, and had jeopardized something that they cared for. I was actually sort of glad to see Draco in the epilogue.
Second:
. . . ooh, good call. Maybe Rowling can explain this in the next–D’OH!
Third: I have no complaints about any of the deaths, aside from the fact that the sheer number of them reminded me of an episode of “24”. During the battle, people died. Whoop dee doo. It’s not that a death happened, it’s how it happened that is important from an authorial perspective; for the most part, the entire series has been told in a third-person limited perspective, in that we know things have happened when Harry does. To read a description of, say, Remus’s or Tonks’s death, would mean that Harry would have had to be there when it happened. At that point Rowling’s heavy hand of exposition would have become unbearable.
Good luck to whomever has to write the script for the movie.
Do you really think Dumbledore lied to Harry about seeing a pair of socks? I’d like to think that he didn’t, and that the whole sock thing was a sign of how he’d reached some kind of nirvana stage by that point in his life. Just a pet theory of mine. I guess we’ll never know.
Why do you think this is a difficulty? Just show it from Harry’s POV. He returns to Hogwarts and sees the bodies of his friends being laid out, just as described in the book, with maybe some slo-mo camera work. OK so that’s cheesy and obvious, but hey, I’m not a director getting paid megabucks, so hopefully he/she will come up with something better – I’m just saying it’s not particularly difficult to convey.
As to how it’s almost glossed over in the book, just summarized in one or two matter of fact sentences: I think that was a good touch, in that Harry now realizes he has to be completely focused on finding and destroying the diadem Horcrux within the hour that Voldemort has given. No time for grieving, just to note with shock who else has given their lives for their cause…
I thought that Lupin’s and Tonks’s offstage deaths were extremely powerful because they were treated so delicately.
There’s a scene late in O’Brien’s Aubrey/Maturin series in which a beloved stalwart dies in the course of battle. His death is described unemotionally, almost incidentally. His absence is mentioned briefly several pages later. That’s it; he’s gone.
That (fictional) loss still resonates with me.
ETA: . . .as those familiar with the series have probably already deduced.
I’m torn. On one hand I like to think of Dumbledore as so centered that the only concern he had was that his feet were a little chilly at the time… But obviously he had some issues with his sister that he never resolved within himself.
I cheered outloud twice ( just for one scene) when Harry remembers Hagrid telling him on his first visit to Gringott’s " You’d have to be mad be break into Gringott’s." and you realize in that instant just how far that lost little 11 year old has travelled and you have travelled with him the entire journey. Then when they broke free of Gringott’s.
How freakin’ awesome!
I cheered again when Harry reveals himself to one of The Carrow’s who just spat on Mcconagall. Perfect.
If I were in public, I would have done it as well.
I was more referring to the difficulty of shoehorning the entire book into some kind of coherent script, not one particular scene. The problem is that this is the last book, and most of it is, essentially, resolution of various plotlines. What gets jettisoned? I mentioned in the thread about the most recent movie that it was my hope that they filmed some scenes that weren’t included in the movie, just so that future DVD owners could choose whether they wanted a more comprehensive version of the entire saga. I’m kidding myself that they’re actually doing this.
Finished on Sat. night…it’s taken me longer to read this thread than it did the book!
2 things from me:
This is the first we’ve heard of a “trace” on underage wizards. If it is indeed the case that the trace is attached to the underage wizard him/herself rather than his/her general vicinity, then the Ministry should have known way back in Azkaban that it’d been Dobby that was throwing those spells around, not Harry.
I was so so hoping that the epilogue (if it had one) would take the form of a letter from Ginny to Ron (or another old school chum), reminiscent of Lily’s letter to Sirius that Harry found at Grimmauld Place, talking about their new year old son Albus Severus…
as to the parseltongue issue. after seeing chamber of secrets twice, once when it opened in theatr, and once the weekend before ootp opened, i could hiss what harry did to open the door. it really isn’t that tough. also ron just heard him hiss just a few weeks ago with the locket.
of course i can demand chocolate in klingon as well, so perhaps it is just me.
apparently speaking parseltongue isn’t just rare but dang near extinct. with only tommy and harry speaking it. and harry had no clue he could until he was 12. who would you tape?
i’m thinking mr dumbledore’s fasination with goats occured after some sort of magical sdmb hazing ritual.
as ms rowling has a tom and a harry in the book, i’m wondering if ron should have been a richard instead of a ronald.
I thought of another reason why Voldemort might not have done much of his own killing after he became powerful, especially when killing children is involved: Getting Death Eaters to perform Unforgivable Curses is a good way to ensure their loyalty. If they know that they will be facing a life sentence in Azkaban for performing those curses if Voldemort loses, they’ll work harder to make sure he doesn’t. So Voldemort would want as many of his Death Eaters as possible to have performed at least one Unforgivable Curse. Sending someone out to kill a child or a Muggle is a good way to ensure the loyalty of someone whose magic skills aren’t all that great- the victim isn’t going to be able to fight back and make things harder.
The resolution of the “trace” could be somehow limited to a few meters, and it detects all magic in the vicinity, not just that done by the underage wizard. That would explain why the Ministry can’t tell who is casting the spell if there is more than one person in a house capable of casting spells, while being useful for tracking an underage wizard whose location is unknown- if someone is lost in the woods, knowing their location to within a few meters is very helpful.
In re-reading Chamber of Secrets I found this. (Background: In Filch’s office, Harry discovers an envelope from Kwikspell, a magic correspondence course for Squibs).