I think the deal is that the goblins are not the rightful owners, except in their own minds. Presumably it was made for Godric (and now I’m doing some major ad hoc rationalization, but I figured he enchanted it to appear from the hat for any Gryffindor in mortal peril), and, per Bill’s explanation of goblin logic, when he died they figured it belonged to them, and therefore it was “stolen” from them. But anyway, the point is, it is not established that the goblin was telling the truth, even from his own perspective. Or he might have considered it the truth, but it didn’t match up with other races’ interpretation of ownership.
Upthread was a question of who Rose is in the epilogue. I think it’s like this: Harry and Ginny begat James, Albus, and Lily. Ron and Hermione begat Rose (Albus’s age) and Hugo (Lily’s age). Where the names Rose and Hugo came from, when there was such a plethora of dead heros to honor, I don’t understand (though it’s natural not to name your child “Mad-Eye”). And yeah, I figured Victoire must be a relative of Fleur, perhaps her and Bill’s daughter.
I found JKR’s treatment of death very wrenching. When Harry’s reflecting on his parents’ mouldering, uncaring bones, and when he buries Dobby, those were very realistic and depressing scenes.
Oh, and I thought the reason Tonks and Lupin both died was so that Harry could wind up being Ted’s godfather, and do it right, in contrast to the prevailing theme of screwed up, sad, abandoned kids with no real home.
I would have liked a throw-away line during the epilogue. Just one of the kids yelling out “Dursley, when did you get the owl?” or “Common, Dursley, let’s find a compartment.” Somehow having a wizard grandchild for Petunia and Mr. would have put the finishing touch on things.
It hasn’t been mentioned much, but what about Fred’s death? There were so many other characters to choose to kill off there (including Percy!) so why’d she choose Fred? Just to make us contemplate the horror of George’s existance without his twin? I mean, they did Everything together including finishing each other’s sentences. They had this lovely comic partnership routine and she chose to eliminate half of it. I see no reason for it, other than pure shock value, which annoys me. We’d already had the death of Doby (which some others have cheered - but he was a hero, too!), Mad-Eye, and others. I say this one was unnecessary.
i was in the “no way” camp with harry being a horcrux.
ahhhh, but then how would you have the delish irony of tommy-boy destroying his own horcrux??!!
right before going to sleep i counted out the horcrux and who did them in. snapped awake when i figured it out. harry was an immortal horcrux!
here we go:
diary destroyed by harry (prophecy)
ring done in by dumbledore
locket stabbed by ron
cup fanged by hermione
crown burned by coyle (ha! death eater in training ooopsy)
harry avadad again by tommy-boy (but harry has his own immortal soul protected by mum)
snake decapitated by neville (prophecy)
with the initial backfire (which i was in the “no way” camp) creating a horcux in harry, tommy-boy sealed his fate. eternity in an icky blob never arriving in a final destination.
like dumbledore said it isn’t a good idea to put a horcux in a living being.
forgot to mention that harry was also in possesion of the 3 hallows as well as mum’s protection. harry was sacrificing himself for others setting up protection for all of them.
death keeps tommy-boy’s soul in the waiting room, harry’s soul gets sent back.
Did anyone else find a minor plot hole in that Harry’s cloak is supposed to provide perfect, invincible invisibility, but Moody sees right through it early on? I mean, if Moody has a magic eye that provides him with super-x-ray vision, why couldn’t anyone else? One Death Eater with an eye like his makes Harry instantly vulnerable. I don’t buy the whole ‘Moody was just unique’ line; it seems a bit too trite for me. Perhaps I’m just being nit-picky, but this annoyed for some reason.
I think the sword is rightfully the goblins’, even when looked at from a ‘human’ perspective. It was the price agreed to get Harry into the vault, and although it wasn’t handed to the goblin, it was still his rightful half of the deal.
(This is under the assumption that it was Harry’s to give away, and since it came to him directly from the headmaster, I think this is safe)
So, what would you take, if given the choice? The Wand, The Stone or The Cloak?
For me, it would definitely be the wand. I wouldn’t be as stupid and boastful as the elder brothe, but it would be good having a device that could win any fight, and apart from breaking Florax’s 5th law of whatever, could create and manipulate virtually anything.
Yes. And Harry’s internal dialogue as he walks to surrender himself to Voldemort, reflecting on how there were so many minutes in one’s life that we waste, even spend impatiently waiting to get over with, but now that he was approaching the end every breath, every heartbeat seemed a miracle. What a piece of work is man…
Hmm. And Dumbledore too, at various points in Sorcerer’s Stone and Prisoner of Azkaban. Maybe if you’re looking specifically for the person under the cloak (Harry), as opposed to generally looking around to see what’s to be seen, and have the appropriate kind of magical vision… mumble
And if this cloak is a unique and legendary magical item that has been in the family for generations, how did Harry’s father James get to use it while at Hogwarts? It’s not like James was an orphan and thus in full possession of his family’s heirlooms at the age of 11 or 12… And as a parent, if I had an invaluable Cloak of Invisibility in my family, giving it to an adventuresome and mischievous teenage son going away to boarding school would require an Imperius Curse and subsequent Memory Charm at the very least.
I’d take the Cloak. I agree with Rowling that resurrecting people = bad voodoo, so no Stone, and I wouldn’t want to go around fighting people with the Wand. But invisibility? Sounds good to me… has Bender-like thoughts
Did anyone else think Peter Pettigrew’s death was a little anti-climatic? All the fuss Rowling made about Harry and Wormtail being OMGconnected! because Harry saved his life in PoA and GoF, I kind of expected Wormtail to run in and save him at the last minute. (Though the silver hand strangling him was definitely cool.)
Did anybody find the scene between Vernon and Harry discussing the “Muggle Prime Minister” rather jarring? Among wizards, the Muggle PM is probably as throwaway as “Th King of Siam” so would probably only ever be referred to his title, but Harry and Vernon would refer to “Major” or “Blair” at least one during such a conversation, (what year is book 7 set?). Just a minor thing but it did stand out to me, and could have so eaily been fixed.
First, I’m not reading a single word of this thread yet, as I’m only a couple hundred pages in. I just wanted to say that I’m surprised and tickled by how funny this book is. I just had to set the book down and stop reading because I was completely overcome with a fit of the giggles over Hermione’s “Merlin’s pants!” and the subsequent “and what in the name of Merlin’s most baggy Y fronts was that about?”
The sword goes to wherever it’s supposed to be, wherever it wants to be. Arrogant as wizards are, the goblins were no less so – remember in Chamber of Secrets when Harry pulls the thing out of the hat? The sword makes that happen itself, in conjunction with the hat – they’re both old Godric Gryffindor’s, so being able to pull the one out of the other is a big HELLO I AM A BIG OL’ GRYFFINDOR sign. I thought it was rather touching the way Neville was able to pull it out.
Rowling mentions somewhere that James’s parents were both A) dead and B) indulgent of their one and only son when they weren’t. I think she said they were elderly when they had their son. They must have died sometime during the school year, I guess. Even if they were alive when James took the cloak to school, there’s every likelihood he could have snuck it out from under their noses.
Which brings an amusing image to mind:
James’s Father: Honey, have you seen the cloak?
James’s Mother: Which one?
JF: The invisibility cloak! The one passed down to me from my father, from his father…
JM: Check the coat closet.
JF: I looked there!
JM: How about the chest of drawers?
JF: Not there either…
JM: Weren’t you going to put it in the safe?
JF: Must’ve forgot, dear…
JM: Well, feel around in there. It is an invisibility cloak; maybe you just can’t see it.
JF: It never worked like that before.
JM: Maybe a mouse curled up inside it. That’d make it and the mouse invisible, wouldn’t – say, why DO you want that cloak, anyway?
JF: gets a bit shifty I was just –
JM: You were going to go peeping at the neighbours’ again, weren’t you!?
In the interests of disclosure I have to admit that I have never read any of the books in this series*, so I’m not emotionally invested in the characters… still, I can’t help feeling sorry for the poor kid who got lumbered with a name like Albus. There’s a kid who’s going to have a hell of a time with schoolyard teasing.
Worse: I confidently predict that there will be a bundle of babies born in the next few years who end up stuck with that name. Poor little sods.
I’m sure they’re very good (the movies were pretty good); it’s just a matter of time, energy, and my preference for light comedy. So the matter of not having read it isn’t meant to come across as one of those patronising 'OMG you don’t like what I like so you’re stupid’ statements - I mention it only because there may be a perfectly good reason why ‘Albus’ won’t get a kid beaten up on the playground, but from my outsider perspective I can’t imagine what it would be.
Try for 