That threw me too, I had to go back and read that comment a couple times before I got it–I think the one “he saw in the basin” was the one he saw in the pensive memory, not in the basin of potion in the cave.
I thought the scene with McGonagall was an indication of a power vacuum. Apparently her replacing him at the school does not mean she’s replacing him in the order. I don’t imagine she will be too pleased to have hermione and ron knowing this information, when she doesn’t. Non of the other order members really stands out as a leader. I think they’re going to be hobbled for much of book 7 because of this.
Yes! Faeribeth and Graphics Gal --I think you’ve got it!
And I appreciate the meaning behind the names so much. Like Albus meaning white…it adds depth to the story.
Also, I wonder about Fleur: Is it part of a Veela’s magic that make women hate her, like Charma, the old Legion of Super-Heroes villainess? Or do the Weasley women just hate her out of jealousy/feeling the Bill only loves her for her looks/etc?
Great book! I have the audio version and will be listening to that next!!
So many points to make, most have been made tho but I will repeat 
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Dumbledore was NOT pleading for his life, he was asking Snape to be strong and do what he said he would do. I think the scene in the cave set the whole thing up and in a way mirrored what happened on the tower.
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I like the romance stuff. I mean they are 16 going on 17, girls are a huge part of a teenage boy! As boys are to teenage girls!
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I love Luna! Her and Harry would make a good pair.
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How freaking small is the Order of Phoenix? I mean the DE’s come to Hogwarts and only what…4…OoP wizards are there to fight? The OoP has Hogwart students fighting full fledged DE’s? Seems a bit inconsitent since Snape was so easily able to defeate Harry, I wouldnt think even the DA would have a chance.
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I really, really, miss Fred and George at Hogwarts. They brought some nice comedy.
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I cant believe Rowling was able to make me feel bad for Draco! Him crying in the bathroom was very sad. Im hoping he comes around
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Snape is not evil. He has tried to save Harry time and time again. I like the idea that he was truly in love with Lilly and since he was the cause of her dying has made it his mission to keep Harry alive.
Book 7 has got to be HUGE. So much to tie up and explain!! I cant believe we will have to wait another year or two!! At least we have GoF comming to theaters in November.
It wouldn’t portray Lily in too good a light, though. Asking small favors of a guy who’s in love with you is bad enough. Asking a guy who’s in love with you to risk his life to protect the child of his worst enemy? That seems really manipulative.
Got it Saturday at 1:00, done by the evening. I managed to keep myself cool until I read the bit about Dumbledore’s portrait hanging there, with him dozing and looking relaxed. Then I blubbered.
Couple of points:
I agree that it looks like Regulus Black is the “R.A.B.” but that leaves a potentially large plothole. When trying to figure out whether Harry was able to inherit 12 Grimmauld Place (as the first non-Black to have a claim), Dumbledore has him try to give orders to Kreacher on the assumption that if Kreacher obeys him, he obviously belongs to Harry. Kreacher does obey, and as such, we know that Harry can inherit, which means that Regulus Black, as Sirius’ younger brother, must be dead.
And on that note, I just reread the section where they’re discussing it. Seems it was a tradition, not a rule or enchantment, which means that Sirius was free to do with it as he wishes. Still kinda sketchy, though.
The other point was…somewhere in there, I can’t remember where I read it, Harry decides that it couldn’t be his father who was the Half-Blood Prince, because the book was too old. If that’s the case, then Snape couldn’t be the HBP either, 'cause he was at school with James. Does anyone remember that, and if so, am I missing something?
I think it’s that and the fact that she’s part Veela, and the Weasleys know about how Veelas can turn into horrible demonesses when they get mad and don’t entirely trust her yet.
But I agree that Mrs. Weasley, who’s able to accept werewolves and all without a shiver, was acting a bit strange about Fleur, who might be a flirt but has also proven her courage and intelligence and work ethic by now. Is Bill the first Weasley to be getting married? I seem to remember Charlie having a girlfriend but no marriages. Maybe that’s it.
Or maybe Rowling’s having fun with the whole French/British stereotype thing.
“My theory as to what made Snape leave the Death Eaters has not changed; Snape was secretly in love with Lily Potter and her murder at the hands of Voldemort made Snape so angry he turned against his master. In book 6, Dumbledore explains how Snape betrayed the Potters voluntarily but then when he found out what Voldemort was planning for the Potters, Snape repented.”
This makes sense, if Snape had the hots for Lily, it is possible the Snape intended to “betray” James Potter to Voldemort in order to “get the girl” in that twisted logic of some young people particulary regarding someone who had been bullying him. This of course had tragic consequences (esp since this is a children’s book) and Snape would be horrified that he caused the death of his unrequited love.
I don’t have much to add here, but I wanted to append my now all-time favorite HP quote:
Snape: {asks Harry some question I can’t remember right now}
Harry: Yes.
Snape: Yes, sir.
Harry: Oh, you don’t have to call me sir, Professor.
I had tears in my eyes and a cramp in my side from laughing so hard. 
that Voldemort doesn’t actually appear in this book? :dubious:
Or has he been here all along, disquised? :rolleyes:
The last book’s gonna be l o n g ! ! !
You know, I’ve been thinking about this and while I do think Snape has an Unbreakable Vow with Lily, I am not so sure it specifically requires him to protect Harry. It may be that protecting Harry comes under the umbrella of the Vow, which would make it even more galling for Snape to have to protect a child he clearly hates beyond reason.
I also can’t quite fix in my mind the timetable of events at the end of Voldemort’s last appearance.
When was Snape captured? Dumbledore vouched for him, so he must have been turned before the capture (or immediately after, I guess). How long before? When was this in relation to events surrounding James’ and Lily’s deaths? Was the capture before or after Snape told Voldemort the part of the Prophesy he overheard?
Are all the trials we saw in the Penseive re: Death Eaters after Voldemort’s supposed demise? Are some of them before? How long before?
The timetable of events in Harry’s first year have got to be crucial to Snape’s story. I am hoping that Lily does not turn out to be manipulating someone who loves her just because she can. I am really hoping the Vow turns out to be more complicated than that.
Here’s a thought on how the story might end:
Harry has found and destroyed all 6 horcruxes. The fight with Voldemort takes place, and Harry deals a fatal injury to Voldy. As Voldemort lays dying, he laughs and tells Harry that he (Voldemort) accidentally created a seventh horcrux – and it’s Harry! Voldy then dies. Harry decides that he must sacrifice himself, so he goes down to that Death Arch in the Minsistry building, intending to throw himself through it. There are tearful, heart-wrenching goodbyes with Ron, Hermione, Ginny, and anyone else who’s still around, and Harry gets ready to walk through the arch.
Then Snape (who has survived, against all fan expectations) stops Harry and, with a very Snape-ish scowl, says “Honesty, Potter, do you really think that there’s no other way to deal with a horcrux than to destroy it?” Then he tells Harry that Voldemort’s soul fragment can be treated like it was a demon or evil spirit. They get a priest to perform an exorcism on Harry, and Voldy’s gone for good. Harry and Ginny hook up again, and get a happily-ever-after ending.
I think Regulus really did bite it way back when in Voldemort’s previous appearance and that whatever Regulus did, he did way back when, too. Harry asks if Voldemort would be aware if one of his horcuxes were destroyed and Dumbledore says no. The fake locket would then have been in the cave for years and years and the real one could have been destroyed. However the real one may well be the one the kids saw last year in Grimmauld Place, so Regulus may not have or didn’thave have a chance to desroy it before Voldemort caught up with him. If Kreacher were his companion is the cave, one wonders what Kreacher knows and how he could be made to tell.
When Hermione tells Harry that Snape’s mother was surnamed Prince, I thought the book probably belonged to her and Snape was using her old textbook. Alternatively, Snape could have just bought a random used textbook (coincidentally from the time of Tom Riddle and Slughorn as Potions Master), making the previous owner possibly very important (if it’s not his own mother).
Some thoughts:
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How did Kreacher and Dobby apparate within Hogwarts after all that talk about how it was impossible? Was that explained earlier? Am I clueless?
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I like the idea about Hogwarts being a horcrux. That’d mean to defeat Voldy Hogwarts would have to be destroyed. Which would be a fitting, though depressing, end to the series.
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I lean more toward thinking that Harry is the horcrux. Here’s how I picture it:
Voldy learns that Harry is his biggest enemy. He goes to kill the Potters. He kills James, splitting his soul, and then Lily puts the whammy on him. In his attempt to kill Harry, his soul gets transferred to Harry, leaving him (V) with just enough to flee. Not enough oomph to kill Harry.
For this to be true, I think perhaps the horcruxes might be reversible. Say that H is a horcrux, and V kills him. Perhaps that way V gets the free-range soul back. Or if he were to destroy any of his horcruxes. Most spells seem to be reversible. So if V can be the one to kill Harry, maybe he can reabsorb his own soul.
Yes, that’s wild speculation on my part.
- I kept noticing two things that puzzled me: Random students seemed to be carrying messages from Dumbledore to Harry. That struck me as odd.
And after D made a big deal about Harry knowing something secret about him, after that H still just accepted D as who he claimed to be. It seemed that the passwords and secrets should have some bearing.
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Mollywobbles!
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I don’t think Snape had any idea what Malfoy’s job was when Snape made the vow. He made the vow so that he could find out what Malfoy’s job was. It didn’t work, at least not the way he had planned. I don’t think he knew that he was going to end up killing D until he was standing on the tower. His look of rage and disgust was at the situation. I do think D is dead, though I will continue to hope he isn’t. I don’t mind cheap plot devices.
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I pretty much held myself together until Harry, in thinking about my beloved Neville and Luna, thinks about how they were the only two DAs who came when called. He thinks about how it was because they loved the DA and needed it more than the others. Then I started bawling. If Rowling kills either of these characters, I’m going to be unconsolable. I’ve been fearing Neville’s demise ever since rumors started about book 4 that a character would die.
Dur. Good point. Absolutely no reason why Regulus couldn’t have done it yearsandyearsandyears ago.
I think it was explained by Dumbledore an earlier book (Chamber? Can’t remember and don’t have access to the books at the moment) that house elves have a different, but very strong type of magic, enabling them to apperate and disapperate in service of their master(s).
One point about the house-elves; they are very powerful magical creatures with their own standards, and they are allowed to apparate within Hogwarts, etc., especially since theoretically they’re only serving wizards anyway.
And another clue that I thought meant Mrs. Weasley was about to snuff it was learning her pet name. It’s like when the grizzled old cop mentions he’s only a few weeks from retirement–it’s clobberin’ time! Glad Rowling didn’t give in to this cliche.
I don’t think Snape would have made the Unbreakable Vow without having some inkling of what Draco was supposed to do, no Slytherin would. But I don’t know.
Still not buying that Harry himself is a Horcrux; he’s been around enough Aurors that somebody would see something. I dunno. Somebody like Madeye Moody would know damn well what Horcruxes are and Snape might have caught it too during those Occlumency lessons.
Agree about Neville. More Neville! More heroic Neville! It was great that the Felix Felicis potion let our main heroes fight largely unscathed.
As for Scrimgeour the vampire, you’re right that it’s probably just a rumor. Luna is usually brutally truthful but when she’s quoting her dad’s paper she’s usually dead wrong.
One thing I do dislike is how UK-centered the books can be. Was Voldemort affecting just the UK, or were there Death-Eaters wreaking havoc amongst Muggles and wizards around the world?
I disagree.
Many mothers will do a lot to protect their child. Lily Potter was willing to die for Harry but she should avoid asking someone who loves her to guarantee her son’s safety?
Also, by getting this promise from Snape, she would save him from the path of evil, so she would be doing him a favour by extracting the promise from him. Snape would also benefit from this.
My vague idea of the timeline:
Snape hears the prophecy, runs to tell Lord Voldemort.
Voldie says “Well done Severus, now I have to kill Harry Potter.”
Snape: “What about Lily?”
Voldie: “Well if she’s in my way - Avada Kedavra!”
Snape (to himself) “Shit! What a bastard!” (using occlumency) “Yes Master, what needs to be done must be done.”
Snape runs over to warn Lily. Lily, James and Harry go to hide in Godric’s Hollow. Lily extracts the unbreakable vow from Snape “you must protect Harry”. Lily tells Dumbledore about the vow.
Rat-boy betrays the secret, the Potters are killed. Trials of remaining Death Eaters start. Snape has a trial and Dumbledore speaks up for him, the old “I trust Snape and so should you” bit. Snape ends up at Hogwarts.
jsgoddess: We have seen house-elves apparating at Hogwarts as far back as “Chamber of Secrets” - Dobby sneaks up on Harry at least once.
JK Rowling has said in interviews that wizards cannot apparate at Hogwarts but house-elves can. House-elves have powers that wizards don’t and vice-versa. However wizards are obviously more powerful, since house-elves are their slaves.