I agree Tenar and just know that Snape is that crabby old man who doesn’t seem to get out much when he is home, and certainly doesn’t participate in neghborhood events…cranky oldish man to the neighbors.
I have doubts about Nagini being a horcrux–didn’t AD say that to make one a living being was difficult to maintain? I think that Voldy sometimes either posesses Nagini because it is too dangerous for him to go do something or tht somehow Voldy’s Patronus is a huge snake and he can manipulate that to do more than a Patronus usually can?
Kinda HP’ed out, to be frank. Am taking a break and will reread book 6 next week. My son stayed up all noc to read it. We haven’t discussed it as yet.
This was my understanding of the horcruxes as well. Not that they were a bunch of 1UP’s hanging around that he could go to get a new body from,but instead an insurance policy against completely dying.
The question I have is this: After the AK spell backfires on Harry LV has 6 horcruxes, he makes another one out of the snake to a total of 7. Now it seems Voldemort is aware of the diary being destroyed (he got that information from Lucius Malfoy). So while he can’t feel the presence of his Horcruxes, he knows that one is gone.
The question is… will he have created another horcrux in addition to Nagini to bring the total to what he believes in 7? or is 7 only the total number that he wants to make, regardless of how many are still out there?
I finished it a couple of days ago, but I haven’t posted yet.
First, I called Dumbledore dying, back before book five. I agree with those who say it’s something that had to happen. As tempting as it is to figure out ways where Dumbledore isn’t dead, I don’t think it fits the needs of the story.
Second, I called Snape doing something sneaky and wrong (though I didn’t call this). I figured, for all the times they’d suspected Snape and been assured of Dumbledore’s confidence in him, he’d be the last person any reader suspected; therefore, it’d be just like Rowling to use him in this fashion.
I find it curious that a tale about Riddle is described where near his seventeenth birthday, Dumbledore describes Hogwarts at the first place Riddle could call home. Seventeen, home: aren’t those the conditions for a Secret-Keeper charm like the one which hides Harry at the Dursleys? Couldn’t Voldemort be hiding at Hogwarts, or use it for the purpose occasionally?
I also find it odd that Dumbledore knew he couldn’t keep a DADA teacher for longer than a year, yet he had no qualms about installing Snape there. It suggests to me that Dumbledore had his own plan for getting Snape out of that position without harm to him.
Dumbledore’s odd confessions after drinking the potion (“don’t hurt them all…hurt me instead”) and his death at Snape’s hands while Harry was nearby, helpless, makes me wonder if Dumbledore hadn’t instructed Snape to kill him so his death would serve the same protective purpose over Harry as had the death of Lily Potter. (This serves the purpose of my previous paragraph’s guess.) That flash of triumph in Dumbledore’s eyes hints there is something about that charm that is important.
If the two above are true, then Dumbledore’s soul is whole and pure and he has no Horcrux. Besides, McGonagall herself said in book 1 that Dumbledore had powers that he would not use.
I don’t believe that Harry is a Horcrux himself. If it were then the prophecy would be all wonky:
If Harry himself were a Horcrux it’d mean he’d have to be destroyed before the Dark Lord could be killed, meaning the Dark Lord couldn’t die by Harry’s hand, or they might mutually destroy one another if the timing were right. Therefore, if Harry is a Horcrux, he can’t win unless there’s a way to undo it and destroy the soul-fragment without destroying what it resides in. Even Dumbledore’s solution was to destroy the ring itself, which surely should not have been necessary if there were another (safer) way.
However, if Harry is a Horcrux but protected by Dumbledore’s sacrifice, wouldn’t Voldemort’s killing curse instead destroy the fragment in Harry, leaving Harry free to destroy Voldemort?
Whoever RAB is, it will greatly simplify the search for the other Horcruxes. Harry has neither the skill to penetrate a Dark wizard’s hiding places, nor the time to learn to do as Dumbledore did. Therefore, I guess, all of the Horcruxes except one have been found; Harry will pursue the RAB lead and find them, but will still have one to go after himself.
The DADA teacher for year 7 will be Harry himself. Why not? He’s got nothing to lose, since either he kills Voldemort (and breaks the DADA teacher curse) or he fails to do so (and is yet another DADA teacher who can’t hold the position).
Prof. Slughorn said that someone who created a horcrux would, when they died, experience a partial existence that most people would not want. This fits in with the spectral, parasite-like condition that Voldemort had to endure until Book 4. It does seem like the “extra life” model that some people have in mind is inaccurate, and there’s no reason to believe that one of the horcruxes was used up when Voldy didn’t die.
Incidentally, do you think that Tom Riddle’s idea to split his soul 7 ways might have been based on the hope that multiple horcruxes would allow him to exist more fully than just one would? IOW, with just one horcrux, he might have been nothing more than an intangible spirit. But multiple horcruxes allow him to do things like grow a second face on the back of Quirrel’s head.
I like Fretful Porpentine’s idea about a one-book rule for the horcruxes. (I seem to be attracted to those sorts of theories.) Offhand, I can’t think of any likely item that was seen in Book 3, but then again I didn’t remember about the locket at Sirius’ house until someone mentioned it on this board.
That’s certainly an interesting theory. However, I have to imagine that if Voldemort was hiding out in Hogwarts somewhere, then he’d have snuck up to the Gryffindor tower and killed Harry in his sleep by now.
finished yestarday morning and its taken me until now to go through all of the posts. Phew! There’s nothing new I can add to the speculation, so just a couple of comments.
The libertarian in me was amused at the untrustworthyness of governments – at least the wizard ministries, we don’t hear much about muggle ministries – in the series. At the beginning, seeing Fudge had been sacked, I thought, “Great! Now maybe the Phoenixers can get some genuine help.” but, no. Scrimgeor (sp) is worse in a way. Instead of Fudge’s pollyanna “Everything is just fine, folks, carry on.” we get innocent people clapped in jail to keep up appearances that Something is Being Done. I was taken in by Scrimmy’s leonine appearance – think I’d have learned by book 6, huh.
Well, there’s fussy eater and then there’s a sense of self-preservation. “Here, drink this yucky-looking potion invented by one of the world’s most powerful (and certainly the most evil) wizards to protect an item of extreme importance to him.” . . . “Maybe there’s another way?”
Britishisms:
I had to figure out what trainers were by context. At another part, where Harry is regreting letting Mc-whosis replace Ron as Keeper the book says Harry “wished he was shot of him.” Hmm, us 'Merkins say “shut” not “shot” of him. Maybe it’s a typo? But there it is again, three lines later. So is it another one of those quirks on either side of the pond, like “in hospital” and “in the hospital”?
DD
I would have thought the wildcard with Snape was he loved Lilly.
He’s sees Harry and sees the Potter Sr and can’t help but react negatively to his tormentor. I think Snape cannot forgive himself however for causing Lilly’s death.
I expect him to die in the next book towards the end, betraying Voldie.
I’m Canadian, and I recognize “well shot of” but not “well shut of”, although I don’t actually hear the phrase in speech.
That award is also explained in the Chamber of Secrets–it’s the award that Tom received for ridding Hogwarts of Hagrid and the monster that killed Myrtle. (Of course, we also find out that Tom really just put the basilisk to sleep, and Hagrid had nothing to do with it.)
I had the same reaction and question…
Exactly what I thought.
I have the UK version. (Oh, I love the internet!)
It says “shot of him.” I’m assuming that’s just something they didn’t translate. Of course, I’m so offended by the translation idea that I order them from overseas.
Did they leave all the references to snogging in? For some reason I think that’s a great word for it.
I buy this much more than Harry being a Horcrux, and it’s along the lines of what I’ve been thinking while reading this thread. Voldemort is afraid of no one but Dumbledore, so there’s reason to believe that he would think that Dumbledore would long outlive him. So if you were going to take the chance on making a living being the vessel for part of your soul, who would be a better choice? It’d also explain why Voldemort hasn’t really ever made a serious attempt on Dumbledore’s life too.
I don’t think it was in the potion, however, but that Dumbledore merely figured out it was in him before he got killed. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d put it in Dumbledore years earlier, given that he was still at Hogwarts when he caused his first death.
That aside, I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought at the end “what the hell, Rowling’s been watching too much Spiderman!” too. I don’t like Harry and Ginny together, but still, that was a dumb reason to leave her - especially since Dumbledore had been trying to pound it into his head that his biggest difference was that he could love while Vodemort could not. But perhaps it’s just that he’s decided that he doesn’t really love her and is going to make a move on Hermione as he should… I totally don’t buy Ron/Hermione. They’ve got all the bickering of Beatrice and Benedick, but none of the passion.
Perhaps he’s there over the summer when it’s abandoned. Or, perhaps, Voldemort wanted to return to Hogwarts precisely because he could hide there secretly, but Dumbledore wouldn’t permit it.
Yup. I’m guessing it’s because there’s nothing on this side of the pond that is an exact equivalent. ‘Making-out’ sounds so lame and has connotations of, hmm, contact besides really serious kissing, and ‘suck-face’ is just so . . . well, wrong.
DD
I’d bet a week’s salary on it. It’s obvious that the hidden truth about Snape was that he loved Lily, and Voldemort’s murdering her turned him.
I tend to agree R.A.B is Regulus Black, but some evil thoughts in me keeps saying it might be initials of 2 (in case A = and) or 3 people.
I just wanted to add that every time I see Harry called the Chosen One, I think he should really start using the name Neo.
[Twilight Zone music]Picture, if you will, Keanu Reeves as Harry Potter in a loosely-adapted, adult version of the books.[/Twilight Zone music]
I kept thinking of Buffy - In every generation, there is a chosen one.
I haven’t read this whole thread. I just finished the book on Saturday and I thought it was great. The scene with Dumbledore in the cave was so horrible – it’s the first time we see him in anything less than super-competent mode. And then, while he’s limping out on Harry’s shoulder, he tells him “I’m not afraid. I’m with you.” Then the next chapter. Oh, man.
It’s certainly well within the realm of possibility that Snape killing Dumbledore was all part of the plan, but I hope not. I hope that this was Rowling pulling the wool over our eyes by having Snape be the prime suspect in five previous books, but then always being on the side of angels, so that we trusted him more than anyone.
–Cliffy
First off, while it is cliche, it does seem to be the most likely course of action if you know that you are being targetted for something- make sure that the collateral damage doesn’t reach those you care about. Of course, it also assumes that the villain buys your gambit- what if Voldemort got to Ginny anyway? Would Harry say, ‘oh well, she’s my ex, carry on?’
Second, I don’t think that Ginny and Harry will end up together. I think that Ginny and Neville will wind up together (some strangely written passages in OotP caught my eye) and Harry will wind up with Luna. It’s a good twist, especially since JKR has stated that Neville and Luna won’t be a couple.
Ron and Hermione- sorry, from the first book, they’ve been destined for each other. And the movies have certainly telegraphed it.
I just finished rereading it last night (I read the first time for the big story, and went back for subtleties). Regrettably, no great insights leapt forth from the pages. I’m still pondering motivations and secrets. Some interesting things occurred to me, however.
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The difference in Harry’s behavior between this book and OotP is striking. It belatedly occurs to me that the nasty temper that annoyed me throughout the last book may not have been Harry’s at all. It was stated that his scar was prickling constantly, indicative of activity on the link between him and Voldemort. I suspect Voldemort is angry or annoyed most of the time. How much were his emotions influencing Harry, above and beyond the short temper that would certainly accompany a constant (if relatively minor) pain? Or is it just that Harry was shocked into growing up a lot in a short time?
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I can’t put my finger on it, precisely, but something nagged at me about Harry’s conversation with Scrimgeour in the Weasley’s garden. His handling of the conversation struck me as rather like Dumbledore talking to someone he disagreed with or disliked. It wasn’t as airy or patient, but then, Harry wasn’t speaking from Dumbledore’s position of power and experience. Did it strike anyone else this way?
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The scene at the top of the tower troubled me, and not just for the obvious reasons. Tactically, Harry and Dumbledore were not in such a bad place under the circumstances. You have the world’s greatest wizard. You have a formidable young wizard–remember, Harry and a group of teens he trained managed for some time to hold off a group of experienced magical killers who had gotten the drop on them. He’s invisible, and can cast at least some spells silently, too. You know where your enemies will be coming from, and that they’ll likely come in single-file.
Does this seem like a good time to petrify the young wizard and allow yourself to be disarmed? Or would it be better to station him to the side to set up a crossfire and petrify or stun the bad guys as they come filing in.
It was a winnable fight. Harry might have been able to take them all alone, or at least keep them off the roof, just by covering the door. Why give up? If it was to insure Harry’s safety, or even Draco’s, he could have petrified Draco and had Harry carry him off on a broom. Harry wouldn’t have liked it, but he had certainly demonstrated that he could be trusted to obey.
Dumbledore had to have had a reason to let things play out the way they did, even though he surely knew it would end in his death. Even if he knew Draco wouldn’t kill him, and believed Snape wouldn’t, he was still dealing with a pack of Death Eaters who would be delighted to finish him off.