Why do you think that they need to be infallible founts of economic wisdom? As the OP mentioned, their perception is important enough. That’s why the surveys I quoted matter. For example, if believing that the government’s policies are contrary to their interests causes them not to expand by hiring, it will have a clear impact on the unemployment and the overall financial well-being of the country.
Yeah, I read it. I understand. I can believe that our credit rating is moving “closer” to a downgrade, but we are still very far from that point. The dollar and US Government debt are still sterling and very in demand as shown by the popularity of our bonds even though their yields are at record lows. But your point is made, if we continue current trends, this cannot continue.
The talk of dumping the dollar is pretty whacky however, what would be a replacement? The Euro? I think the lack of stability in that currency is very evident with everything going on with the piigs. What else?
Anyway, what I don’t get is the vehement hatred of President Obama’s policies. The health care overhaul was taken directly from the 90’s Republican play book with a little extra from some conservative think tanks in the early part of last decade. Who knows, it might even save the government money and help consumers. Regardless, something needed to change and I sure didn’t see any ideas coming from the right (well except don’t get sick, and if you do, die quickly). Almost everybody agreed that the stimulus was important at the time, especially economists. I know that many people, including some economists, did not think it would work, but most agreed it wouldn’t hurt. It wasn’t even that big, 500 billion (about 3 times the size of the Bush stimulus passed only 9 months before) with another 250 billion in tax cuts (don’t conservatives like tax cuts?). It was nothing compared to the 700 billion spent on TARP and the 2 Trillion the fed printed in the last days of the Bush Administration, but conservatives seem to blame this on Obama also. President Obama has more boots on the ground at our southern border than any time in history and has gone out of his way to fine businesses that hire immigrants in this country illegally. He has done more than any president in history to stem this tide, but he gets no credit from conservatives there. He has made bold moves with the war on terror, both with the surge in Afghanistan and with strikes against the Taliban and Al Qaeda both in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but conservative seem to want to cut and run now that a Democrat is in charge. I have yet to see a truly valid argument how President Obama is a radical bent on destroying this country.
And Sam, who I like and enjoy reading generally, has been sucked up in the tide. The OP is crap, for all kinds of reasons already pointed out. Sam is way better than this and should be able to argue against Obama’s policies on their merits, hell even I can do that and I’m a supporter, but instead he gives us this crap? Step away from the talk radio…
The problem with the stimulus is that it didn’t stimulate much of anything. Other than a few road projects it was a serious pork barrel waste of money. My city got hybrid buses it didn’t need and my state got a grant for high speed rail that will lose money if it goes into being. Our grand children will be paying for the debt on top of a social security deficit.
Instead of concentrating on fixing the unemployment problem the President cut deep sea oil drilling and is still talking about increasing cap and trade taxes. This is the exact opposite of what we need.
Didn’t it also include a bunch of tax cuts? Sounds like we can conclude that tax cuts don’t help stimulate the economy…
Right, I also accidentally got you confused with adhay and apologize for that.
What is anti-business posturing? If the issue is that of *perception *(by small business owners), what does [any] government need to do to make small business owners feel better?
I admit to being very suspicious of a criticism of Germany’s approach to the recession based on what some predicted would happen, as opposed to what actually HAS happened.
If in fact Germany’s approach was wrong, as compared to other Western nations, it should be very easy to provide some evidence showing they have done poorly over the last two years, as opposed to dredging up criticisms from years ago that we’ve had time to determine the validity of.
The gist is, “We, the top few percent, the biggest, the richest, the most powerful, intend to hold the nation hostage by holding back on investment, hiring and lending, until we get rid of this guy who wants to tax us, regulate us and hold us otherwise accountable for our actions (and/or crimes) and cut into our record-breaking profits.”
Fuck them.
(hey, it’s only fair; they’ve fucked US plenty)
I want to add (as a separate post) that the idea being currently seeded in the mass consciousness that Obama is, to quote Adhay, “Bush in blackface” (and otherwise disappointing) is nonsense.
Let us not lose sight of what he has accomplished to date (those who seek to supplant him certainly haven’t…why do you think they are so rabid to get him out and reverse his reforms?)
In the face of the worst economic downturn since the Great depression, two wars, and unrelenting obstruction and character assasination, he has pushed through legislation which has the potential to be as revolutionary as Social Security, Medicare or Anti-trust.
He has represented our nation with dignity, intelligence and principle, and restored much of the goodwill squandered by Bush.
And what is the alternative those on the left seek? (I ask as a left-leaning Independent myself who voted for Obama and still support him). Huh? Dumb-asses? 
:smack:
He TOLD you he wasn’t a socialist or radical leftist…what? Did you assume he was lying, like the right did and still do? Idiots.
And who is YOUR candidate? You know, the one who can keep the Republicans from re-taking power and rolling back everything Obama HAS managed to accomplish thus far and then some? Like I thought…dead silence. :rolleyes:
I am almost as pissed at my fellow lefties as I am at the righties. Fine, attack Obama and let’s have 4 to 8 MORE years of the Republicans.
NO, he’s NOT a socialist OR a radical leftist. He is a moderate pragmatist, like he SAID he was. He concedes too much in his efforts to engage across party lines.
He ain’t gonna legalize pot (though the DEA DID stop harrassing small growers in states with legal medical pot, a HUGE change from the Bush DEA).
He’s not going to get us a single payer system (but he has laid the groundwork which can be built upon later IF we don’t let it be dismantled in the meantime!).
The financial reforms passed don’t go quite far enough but they go a hell of a lot farther than what we had and what any Republican administration would allow to happen.
ETC…
I am as idealistic as the next person (I usually vote for 3rd party candidates in races where my vote for the Democrats is not going to count, both to support opening up the systm to alternatives and because I happen to prefer the actual candidates and their positions. I voted FOR Obama, however, on his own merits, even though it was pretty clear he didn’t need my vote) but COME ON!
When it comes down to a return to Republican rule or Obama (and it does, make no mistake) are you REALLY going to continue undermining OBAMA? Idiots. :smack:
Long term I tend to believe the species will be fine. We collectively have survived far worse things with far fewer resources (material, wealth, scientific, technological) to use to help us get through them.
Oh, I agree that we will make but in greatly reduced numbers. Those who can, over the next, say, 20 years, wean themselves from dependence on cheap oil will do just fine. The sooner one starts, the better.
That weaning must include establishing local independence from imported food and fuel for traction, transport and transportation and developing local basic manufacturing.
As for our present “material, wealth, scientific [and] technological” resources, an honest look should convince anyone that they have been made possible by 150 years of cheap oil and we’re running out.
I see few real reforms. What exactly is our reason for being in Afghanistan? That is a rhetorical question, not a hijack. 
Aye, there ain’t no viable political alternative. That’s my point and the problem as I see it.
I was hoping he was “lying” about that. Instead, he was lying (I think he was smart enough to realize it) about the feasibility of change and his being beholding to corporate America.
See above.
And I say that, effectively, it makes no difference.
Ah, locavorism, the idea that doesn’t make any sense and would actually be vastly worse for the environment.
I am not a locavore but let’s end this hijack right now.
Back to the OP.
I have had great a seat at Our American Dream now playing at The Great American Virtual Theater in Washington, DC. Cast and production crew are corrupt and self-serving assholes, running up the public debt then charging us interest on it for their own enrichment and to the loss of society.
But in a democratic republic, how does this happen? What thinking American could possibly countenance this shit. They should be booed off the stage.
The key to making this corrupt charade plausible to the people is their involvement in the drama (fear)produced with sham political, social and economic tension. Get the audience jabbering among themselves and pointing fingers at each other and the play goes on.
After 8 yrs of Bush, anything looked good. So much the better that he’s black and clearly progressive. Plenty of fuel for public “debate” there.
Ha ha.
A few threads and a couple of weeks ago you finally accepted that the recession was down to a drop in demand. Now you’re back to claiming that “lack of investment” is down to “uncertainty” again, and citing two CEOs whose job it is to lobby for policies to make their businesses more profitable and some clown from CNBC who has a track record that makes yours look good. The first guy, Zuckerman, has this to say :
The predilection to blame business was manifest in one of President Barack Obama’s recent speeches. He was supposed to be seeking the support of the business community for a doubling of exports over the next five years. Instead he lashed out at “unscrupulous and underhanded businesses, who are unencumbered by any restriction on activities that might harm the environment, take advantage of middle-class families, or, as we’ve seen, threaten to bring down the entire financial system.”
This kind of gratuitous and overstated demonisation – widely seen in the business community as a resort to economic populism on the part of Mr Obama to shore up the growing weakness in his political standing – is exactly the wrong approach.
Now here’s what Obama actually said :
Too much regulation or too much spending can stifle innovation, can hamper confidence and growth, and hurt business and families. A government that does too little can be just as irresponsible as a government that does too much — because, for example, in the absence of sound oversight, responsible businesses are forced to compete against unscrupulous and underhanded businesses, who are unencumbered by any restrictions on activities that might harm the environment, or take advantage of middle-class families, or threaten to bring down the entire financial system. That’s bad for everybody.
And of course you can grow your way out of debt, that’s exactly how America got out of its big WW2 debt overhang.
Then you’ve got Cramer, who’s a clown, then you’ve quoted some McCain supporter who like you is just spouting conservative boilerplate.
Finally, let’s look at actual investment recently :
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/why-isnt-investment-higher/
It’s actually surprising how well investment levels have held up due to the massive increase in excess capacity that’s been created by the meltdown caused by eight years of pro-growth business-friendly policies that the three guys you quoted in the OP have all supported.
Here’s the FT on Germany :
The improvement in Germany’s economic growth is driven not by productivity gains but by real devaluation.So while I expect the German economy to perform better than the eurozone average, it is important to keep some perspective and not draw false inferences from the 9 per cent annualised growth rate during the second quarter. If you look at the period since the beginning of the financial crisis, Germany’s economic performance has been dismal. If you compare levels of gross domestic product between Germany and the US since the crisis, you find the US significantly outperformed Germany during that period. That situation may still be reversed if the US were to go into a double-dip recession. But the best judgment we can make now is that of Christine Lagarde, the French finance minister, in her recent interview in the Financial Times: Germany is recovering faster this year because it contracted faster last year, when GDP fell by 5 per cent. So far, this looks like classic dead-cat bounce.
It’s also worth noting that the German economy is benefitting from a fiscal stimulus of 2% of GDP this year. Austerity measures won’t filter into their economic numbers until next year. As a general rule the effect of fiscal stimulus in economys around the world has been resounding success.
Here are the OECD numbers showing the relative levels of fiscal stimulus in the US and German economys over the last couple of years :
Well, things stared going to hell when Obama rammed TARP down our throats!
Oh, please.
Things started going to hell (again) when the banks took over the Fed. That would have been in 1913.
Yeah, everything was fine before 1913.
Except for, you know, the massive super-recessions and bank panics that happened constantly. But other than that it was great!