Agreed.
This helps explain the ceilings.
But look at 2024.
I’m going to give you a choice between being hit in the finger and having your legs sawn off slowly with no anesthesia. What would one think if you said, “Hmmmm. I don’t want to be hit in the finger so I’ll let others decide for me.” That’s why all of the apologists excusing Democrats not voting are just objectively wrong.
Would you have been willing to vote for a Democrat against Trump no matter who was in the ticket?
So, the future is just constantly voting for “not Republican”? Same in 2028, 2032, 2036 etc? You shouldnt demand anything from the Democrats other than not being Trump?
Sure, 2028 you might get people to hold their nose and vote for whoever the Democrats put up, purely in the interest of still having a democracy, but unless they actually start fixing things that vote wont last for 2032 and you’ll be back to the same problem with whoever replaces Trump.
Asking for votes while giving nothing in return is not a winning strategy.
I’ll answer it this way. I am a Republican and I proudly voted for Harris. So what does that say about Dems that didn’t vote for her.
Also, would you condemn PhillyGuy and other pro-Israel voters for not voting Democrat if Harris had stopped supporting Israel?
You didn’t answer the question.
Never said that. I am limiting my discussion to voting anyone but Trump in 2024. The future years was in response to the OP’s premise in that if a Democrat in a know swing state can’t be bothered to vote in 2024 with what was at stake, why should we expect them to vote in future elections.
In 2024 specifically running against Trump then yes, that was enough. And that doesn’t even account for the fact that Harris was a good candidate. Look at it from a Dem’s perspective. Looking at the dozens of things Trump will do that you disagree with compared to what? Two Harris policies you disagree with? And on that you decide not to vote?
Why are you not understanding. Against Trump in 2024? Yes I would IF they decided to not vote in a swing state.
Which question? There’s been a lot of them.
Yes. I don’t care if the Democratic candidate arose from a crack in the earth leading to Hell and smelling of sulfur; any Democrat would be better than any Republican (much less Trump) because the Republicans as a whole are just that horrible. And because the Republicans are far more able to do damage, thanks to how supine the Democrats and intransigent the Republicans are; no matter how bad the Democrat, they’d never be able to approach doing the damage Trump has done.
My question
This one?
No but that does not alter my point at all since it was Harris running for President.
And before you somehow think that you won a gotcha, I am not going to open myself to any Democrat who possibly could have run. I would have voted for most Dems over Trump in 2024 but I would have absolutely refused to vote for Maxine Waters for President for example.
But again remember that I am a Republican (although technically unaffiliated while it’s the party of MAGA). Let’s bring this back to the original premise. Should a Democrat had voted for any Dem over Trump in 2024?
So I guess Trump didn’t concern you that much then after all. Sounds like you aren’t the person to be lecturing others on how they voted.
This is what the primaries are for, to get the candidate you want. I voted for Bernie in 2016 and 2020. However, he lost the vote. Yes the DNC didn’t like him, but it doesn’t change the fact that Bernie didn’t win enough votes. Bernie got 13 million votes in 2016 vs Clinton’s 17 million. Sanders only got 10 million votes in 2020. In 2016 and 2020, the voters were given the option to vote for a progressive and the progressive didn’t get the majority of the vote.
There was no primary in 2024, part of me wonders if it was planned that way so no progressive challenger could arise.
Part of the issue is that progressive democrats don’t really appeal to non-whites. White liberals/leftists like progressive candidates, but they do terribly with black voters for example.
Oh you got me good. Because that is exactly what I meant when I said there exist Democrats that I would not have voted for. Yeah you showed me considering I did more to get Harris elected than those Democratic not voters in the swing states. Yeah I voted Democrat in 2024 but let’s give those non-voters a pass. OMG you won the SD debate award with “He would not have voted for Maxine Waters so give that very specific caveat hes not anti-Trump (although he did vote against him, ignore that).”
OK, let’s say that people had voted Harris in 2024. What would have changed to stop him or his successor being voted in in 2028? You’re now in a position where the Democrats policies are irrelevant, no matter how abhorrent you may find them, all that’s important is voting “not Republican”. Is it really a democracy at that point? What’s the plan to get back to having a free vote?
As for it only being “two policies” that people disagreed with, a) if one of those policies is helping kill your friends and family then its going to be a pretty big issue and b) its not just one or two things. The genocide issue is the one that always comes up, but there were plenty of other reasons people didn’t vote for her. Some more valid than others, but she was not an objectively good candidate.
FYI, I’m not American so didn’t vote for either of them. I am however in a similar but lower stakes position here in the UK, where I couldn’t vote for Labour (centrist party) right now, even if that means Reform (right wing/trump-like party) get in. Hopefully Labour can redeem themselves by our next election though.
- Let’s worry about one election at a time.
- That’s moving away from the whole point of: If you can’t be bothered as a Democrat to vote in Harris vs Trump in 2024, then why would we expect you to vote in 2028?
Are you claiming that a significant number of Democratic non-voters have friends and family in Gaza?
Then tell me which of Harris’ proposed policies were worse than what Trump had planned for this country given the Democratic perspective. Treating trans people like human beings? Giving newcomers amnesty trials rather than automatic deportation? A realistic way to handle inflation other than claiming it doesn’t exist once she takes office?
So why would it be ok for you not to vote for Maxine Waters, but not ok for people to not vote for Harris? Surely Waters would be better than Trump?
So just kick the can down the road? That’s going to encourage people to vote.
I all not going to take firefighting advice from people who spent decades pouring gasoline around my house, handed a match to pyromaniac, and then pat themselves on the back because they didn’t personally light the match.
While I’m not going to be happy with the young person who didn’t pour their bottle of water on the flames, I don’t blame as much for the fire.