Neither of my questions are answered. First, I asked for links to the other candidates’ birth certificates, since you say they presented them, but so far as I can tell, Obama was the only candidate who released his birth certificate. Second, I asked which of two scenarios McCain fell into to grant him natural-born citizenship. You’ve stated that he was one, but didn’t say whether it was because he was born in the US, or because he was born outside of US jurisdiction to American parents.
Civil cases, and trial, in the USA are based on “what would a common person think or reason” NOT on what trained actors as attorneys would fathom. Members of the senate are people as yourself, by the way, and do not have any more mental gifts than you have—at least that is the idea in a representative government.
So your statement of:
“I have no power to determine the merits of a case in open court, or argue legal issues in front of the Senate, so I have no idea what point you think you are making.”
Does not hold water with me, claiming incapability does relive responsibility of a citizen. If you are called to jury duty, it is not an excuse to say how incapable you are, and ignore the order. In many states you can be held for contempt of court.
The point being is looking for some authority to settle the matter other than public opinion, and to date that has not happened. Seeing the case is left to public opinion, you are just as able as any one else to search out the facts and come to a reasonable conclusion. Just pretend you are the senate and for the sake of the country you need the facts, and not hearsay.
In the first part of this thread the so called birthers were getting a beating in name calling and unfounded ridicule, I’m not sure if you were part of it or not. The point is, there is reasonable evidence what Obama is saying is not true about his birth records, so call him on it and read the legal cases on the subject, as sooner or latter you will have to turn to some authority, and court cases are the highest that you can get in this matter.
Of course we could use water-boarding—ha ha ha. Confess or you loose your finger nails always gets to the truth—ha ha ha
To me the over all view is not research, but rather if you question obama’s birth records you are a racist or some other mud-belly thing that walks with short legs. That is not an argument in any shape or form. Sorry if I included you undeservingly.
My intent was not to write a legal memo on the topic, with citations, but rather point out a few facts that some may desire to search out, and hit some high point for entertainment. A while back I had a fairly large file on the topic, perhaps I can dig it out if interest and time permits. But none the less it is all over the net. Just use key words on Google and you will do just fine.
By the way get yourself a free on-line copy of Blacks Law Dictionary, and look up words and phrases you do not know, as once you know the legal language and court procedures the rest is easy.
Don
Can anyone find this form?
I did find this page which lists the means by which one can relinquish their US Citizenship.
I didn’t see anything about being adopted by a citizen of a different country.
This page from the US State Department does confirm that there is no “dual citizenship”.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
But that intent is that someone who is a citizen of the United States is a citizen regardless of whatever other citizenships they may hold. That is, there is nothing special about being a dual citizen, to the United States you are just a US citizen. Meaning someone who became a citizen of another country (e.g. by adoption) would retain their US citizenship regardless.
You have this exactly backwards. The onus of proof is on those making the accusations. Always.
Don123, I accuse you of committing a series of grisly murders in 1997. You must now prove to me, with physical evidence that is undisputed, that you did not commit those murders, or it’s the needle for you.
Fortunately for you, that ain’t the way it works.
Don: please show me where John McCain put his birth certificate out in public for everyone to view.
And what do you say to the fact that there is no record, other than this mysterious birth certificate that only the McCain campaign would show selected people, that McCain was born at the hospital he says he was born at?
One could say that there is far more evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii than there is that McCain was born in Panama.
Why has McCain covered up these facts for so long?
Ha. I did think of Gilbert Gottfried/Glenn Beck.
The simple answer is: NO.
There is no birth certificate. There is no birth certificate to hide. Obama was not born in Hawaii, so he has no Hawaii birth certificate. How could there be?
Obama spent (over) a million dollars hiding the fact that there is no birth certificate of obama being born in Hawaii.
(all other records that might show where obama really was born, e.g. school records, marriage records, etc, are also kept hidden)
I never said obama’s mother denounced his US citizenship, but the question remains can a person with duel citizenship be president?
The answer from this legal article is clearly NO. Special note—it is not a matter of politics, or who you like as president, or political campaigning, but a matter of law and the dedication to the USA as commander and chief of the military by birth circumstances.
Fact, obama had duel citizenship, that disqualifies him from running for president or vice president. In order to have a valid case, or stand a chance of winning a case, you need both statutes and court case backing that compliment each other that is not overly broad.
What you lack is court case backing, just because obama was assumed born in the USA his father’s citizenship (England/Kenya) disqualifies him to be president. This does not do away with his USA citizenship (if any) it does mean the “situation” to what he was born in disqualifies him.
Here is my reference:
[For the most comprehensive etymological deconstruction of the term “natural born Citizen,” I strongly recommend, “What Is A Natural Born Citizen Of The United States?” by John Greschak.
Orly?
God damn it, in how many threads do I have to mention that my own birth certificate from Pennsylvania, where I was born in 1962, looks exactly like Obama’s, down to the computer printing?
It’s strange that this particular element of your screed bothers me more than anything else, but such as it is: The word is “dual”. Unless you are proposing that these theoretical citizenships are facing off at ten paces.
This is not fact, actually.
The Constitution says only a natural born citizen may be President, but somehow you refer to lawyer’s opinions – keep in mind that lawyers are paid to lie for a living – who say that the Constitution doesn’t say what it actually says. These lawyers say a dual citizen cannot be president, but that’s not what the Constitution says.
Sounds like you’re making the Constitution into a living document.
Oohh! I get to be first?
TLDR
Also too ridiculous. It’s a two-fer!
A real birth certificate is called a “birth certificate”.
It also contains detailed information such as the name of the hospital where the birth occured, it names the attending physican, witnesses, the names of the parents, and their address. A real birth certificate can be easily checked out for its authenticity by comparing it with the hospital patient records, the hospital billing records, contacting the attending physician and the witnesses who were there for verification. Hospitals keep records forever!!!
It goes without saying, that if obama had been born in Hawaii in 1961, a black baby born from a white woman in 1961, a black baby who later became president, then you would not have to look for any doctor and nurses and interns and orderlies and nurses aides etc who were there - because they would already be bragging about it and already selling their stories.
The reason why no doctor, no nurse, no hospital worker, no neighbor, no relative, no taxi driver, no amublance driver, etc. has come forward to verify obama’s birth, is because there was no birth, there was no doctor, there was no nurse…nobody saw it…because obama was not born in any hospital in Hawaii.
If we already know these things about somebody, then there would be no real reason to hide a birth certificate since their would no longer be any reason to not show information which is already in the public domain.
If you already knew my date and time of birth, if you already knew my parents names and addresses, if you already knew my hospital, if you already knew my attending physician, if you already knew the names of the people who witnessed my birth…then it would be beyond stupid to spend 2 million dollars to not show you my birth certificate which has nothing on it that you dont already know.
In such a case, the only reason to not show a birth certificate, the only reason to spend millions of dollars to hide, is because you dont have one.
Lastly, all of the legal American presidents would have been proud to prove that they were legal American citizens. All of the legal past American presidents have been proud that they were American citizens.
John McCain’s parents were both American citizens, so he is an American citizen. John McCain was born in Panama, so according to Panamanian law, he is also a Panamanian citizens.
So according to your “dual citizen” theory, John McCain was ineligible to run for president.
Except the Constitution doesn’t specify that presidential candidates not be dual citizens, only that they are natural born citizens (or a citizen at the time the constitution was ratified). This term is not defined in the constitution, but the only reasonable reading is that it means someone who was a citizen from birth.
John McCain was a citizen from birth, because his parents were US citizens.
Barack Obama was a citizen from birth, because he was born in the Hawaii, which is part of the United States, and according to the sacred constitution, all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
- obama was not born in Hawaii
- Obama’s father was **not **an American citizen, but rather, his father was a British citizen which prevented obama from being an American
- Obama’s mother did not reside in the USA long enough to give American citizenship to her baby
How do you know Obama spend millions of dollars to hide his birth certificate? I understand that you believe it to be true, but what evidence do you have that it is true?
For which other presidential candidates have you seen copies of their birth certificates? For instance, have you seen a copy of Sarah Palin’s birth certificate? Or McCain’s? Or Bush’s? Or Clinton’s? Or Reagan’s?
Don123, we try to be respectful of copyrights on this site. Please don’t repost entire articles. If you want to cite someone, use a short quote and a link.
Repeating something that is wrong does not make it so. Clearly, the evidence is against you here.
Actually, it does no such thing.
Since he was born in the US this is moot.