The speculations are just coming from the birthers.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
If I wanted to send you my Pennsylvania birth certificate, the only thing I could get for you would be the computer generated short form copy. My original birth records do not exist anymore. No matter how much I, myself would scream, the state of Pennsylvania wouldn’t do any better. That is the way records are kept nowadays.
Fact is YOU do not KNOW if obama was born in Hawaii or not— you have NO paper trail to follow—NONE. I have posted, with reference, the 4 Hawaiian laws (regulations) at the time of his birth regarding birth applications. They are ambiguous to the hilt, if not criminal by today’s standards. Without the originals you have NO idea what happened.
The only thing you have is the paper trail that Obama’s parents left behind—if any. And you do not have access to it, NO one does but Obama. Accordingly all you have is big cloud of smoke and mirrors.
Regardless of what you think of me, you are hammed hard, boxed in, and you have no solid ground to retreat.
You do NOT know if Obama was born in Hawaii, neither do I> YOU Can rephrase yourself to save face. YOU “believe” Obama was born in Hawaii. And you can believe what ever you want to but YOU do not “know”. Every thing else is propaganda, conspiracy, speculation, projections, bias, opinion, and wishful thinking; until you have the facts on the table that Obama refuses to deliver.
The consequences of you admitting to yourself “ YOU do not know” if Obama was born in Hawaii are sever. You just might have to rethink all those lies Obama has been telling you.
PS, It is a common piece of paper with writting on it, what is there to hide?
Don
You have NOT posted anything with references. Please post the cites or stop stating this. Section 57-10 disputes everything you are stating. See two can play this silly game. But if you post the actual references then I can tell if you are yanking my chain or if you are serious. I am willing to keep an open mind if you can provide something tangible, but you haven’t done that.
If these 4 Hawaiian laws (regulations) exist it seems it would be a fairly easy thing for you to post a link. Please do so or admit you have no evidence. It isn’t that difficult.
I am off to bed, some of us actually earn our money honestly. I will check in the morning for my cites. I trust you will be able to find them by then!
I will try again–delete this
You don’t KNOW that you weren’t born in Japan to a coke-whore and a pedophile priest and sold to the people you *think *are your parents.
There is no evidence for this, but you don’t KNOW that it isn’t the case.
What you need to realize is that you are believing things with no evidence. You’re being no better than someone who believes in astrology or homeopathic medicine.
Rational people believe things because of evidence. Not because they can’t find evidence that it didn’t happen.
Posted here on this thread:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=527526&page=7
here is the post–
Examiner is back - Examiner.com…-of-Live-Birth
In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were four different ways to get an “original birth certificate” on record. They varied greatly in their reliability as evidence. For convenience, I’ll call them BC1, BC2, BC3, and BC4.
BC1. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).
Actual long form Certificate of Live Birth similar to one Obama refuses to release
(see picture here at the site listed above, it is not anything like the one posted on obamabat web sites, not even close.)
BC2. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then all that was required was that one of the parents send in a birth certificate to be filed. The birth certificate could be filed by mail. There appears to have been no requirement for the parent to actually physically appear before “the local registrar of the district.” It would have been very easy for a relative to forge an absent parent’s signature to a form and mail it in. In addition, if a claim was made that “neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as above provided is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local registrar shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate.” (Section 57-8&9) I asked the Dept of Health what they currently ask for (in 2008) to back up a parent’s claim that a child was born in Hawaii. I was told that all they required was a proof of residence in Hawaii (e.g. a driver’s license [We know from interviews with her friends on Mercer Island in Washington State that Ann Dunham had acquired a driver’s license by the summer of 1961 at the age of 17] or telephone bill) and pre-natal (statement or report that a woman was pregnant) and post-natal (statement or report that a new-born baby has been examined) certification by a physician. On further enquiry, the employee that I spoke to informed me that the pre-natal and post-natal certifications had probably not been in force in the ‘60s. Even if they had been, there is and was no requirement for a physician or midwife to witness, state or report that the baby was born in Hawaii.
BC3. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, a “Delayed Certificate” could be filed, which required that “a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing or the alteration [of a file] shall be endorsed on the certificates”, which “evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file.” The statute provided that “the probative value of a ‘delayed’ or ‘altered’ certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence.” (See Section 57- 9, 18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).”
[In other words, this form of vault birth certificate, the Delayed Certificate, required no more than a statement before a government bureaucrat by one of the parents or (the law does not seem to me clear on this) one of Barack Obama’s grandparents. If the latter is true, Ann Dunham did not have to be present for this statement or even in the country.]
BC4. If a child is born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult (including the subject person [i.e. the birth child as an adult]) if the Office of the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961.) In 1955 the “secretary of the Territory” was in charge of this procedure. In 1960 it was transferred to the Office of the Lieutenant Governor (“the lieutenant governor, or his secretary, or such other person as he may designate or appoint from his office” §338-41 [in 1961]).
It does not matter where I was born, I’m not the president nor running for president.
That was easy, and I think everything is spelled correctly.
Don
So the only reason you have to doubt BC1 is the claim that Obama refuses to release a document he doesn’t actually have?
It was easy because you didn’t do anything. You’re pretending to make points, not actually making them.
Don’t be silly, it is highly possible that obama’s Grand mother knew the “over all” value of USA citizenship and her wayward daughter, perhaps out of the country, did not. The Grand mother had the wisdom of age and obama’s mom had the child out of lust, it happens all the time. That is what some families do.
You can speculate all you want, and you have nothing at all. You are grabbing straws because you do not have the facts. I have the laws (regulations) of Hawaii regarding issuing birth certificates and you do not. If you think a mail in registration, and NO authority needs to see the child, is valid proof of physical birth in Hawaii then good for you. That was perfectly valid Hawaiian registration at the time of Obama’s birth. But you do not even know that without seeing the original.
Don
Don123 writes:
> when I was selling mangoes in Florida to colored town at age six, pulling my
> wagons filled with fruit for sale door to door to poor blacks, did I realize that I
> would have over a million bucks cash before I was 27, all by my own hard
> earned work—after taxes?
. . .
> I’m a stinking racist, and my loyalty is to my white kind.
Your biography is even more confused than your arguments. You made whatever money you have by starting by taking advantage of some poor blacks. Now you admit you’re a racist. If this biography is correct (and we have no way of checking), you ought to instead thank every poor black you meet. You made your money by working the system better than them. If Obama actually did anything you claim that you say he did, he worked the system better than you did. I don’t see that you have any loyalty to anyone except yourself.
Yeesh, not only is the citizenship of every Hawaiian called into question, but motherhood is now a “lust” thing.
We do not know if it is BC1-4, however obama has the authority to make the record public, and to date he has done nothing but lied about it, done everything but get it up.
Untill he does, the USA has been scamed, gutted, and hung out to rot.
Good luck to you.
Don
NO, it is only obama as he is the president and may run again–so the problem is HIS to put up or shut up.
It is not a matter of him being a citizen of the USA but rather his physical place of birth. Once that is established then we can move on to the requirements of a president in the USA constitution.
But even setting that aside, fact is obama has made claims he cannot and will not support. All you get is a bucket load of political slimy crap.
Don
Hey, he ain’t my president… Besides, he was educated from grade 5 onward in the U.S., went to a prestigious law school in the U.S., held elected office in the U.S., speaks fluent English and as far as I can tell has political views that are not at all atypical for Americans. If anything is being called into question, it’s the need for the “natural born” requirement.
I’ve suggested in the past making a small tweak whereby eligibility is determined by having been a U.S. citizen for 35 years. For the native-born, nothing changes. For a naturalized immigrant, 35 years is more than enough time to thoroughly assimilate. Arnold Schwarzenegger would be eligible in 2018.
It’s not clear to me that the stakes are high enough to require more evidence than has already been made available to you.
I think this should be brought back to the top…
I’m sorry, Don, but no. We have her passport application records, and she got her first in 1965.
You see, it was valid until July 18th, 1970, when extended. It’s right there.
In the 1960s, passports were good for three years, with a two year extension.
So that puts us at her first passport showing up in 1965.
Which is a bit after 1961. I can tell these things.
The reason it’s not sealed, by the way, is because she’s dead.
Also, happy birthday, Mr. President!
Oh, great. Now I have Criswell’s voice stuck in my head asking, “Can your heart stand the shocking facts about BIRTH RECORDS FROM OUTER SPACE?”
Yes, and Obama was the “pick of the litter.” :rolleyes: