No. Cite?
Russia is no economic giant. With a GDP smaller than Canada and exports of 300 billion a year (comparable to the Netherlands) primarily to the Netherlands, Germany and Italy it’s hardly a critical lynch pin in the global economy. Except for two things - oil and natural gas.
Sanctions could be put in place if required and now would be the best time to do it. Before winter comes and Russia accidentally turns off the gas and oil to Europe again.
I can’t believe the stupidity I am reading in the newspapers.
This is an attack by a tiny group of Russian hackers pissed off by that minor spat in Estonia. Plain and simple.
Most assuredly these things are done by a few individuals.
Here are two old examples of Internet attacks like these. One was by a 13-year old kid who was pissed off by being called a script kiddie.
As those two stories demonstrate, “where the attacks come from” proves nothing.
While the technology has become more sophisticated since 2001 and the perpetrators have gone pro, the basic idea of these attacks is still the same.
What I would like to know is, what are the technical details of the attacks? Do they have any actual experts working on the case, as opposed to fear-mongering nitwits? Are they using products like these and do they help at all?
It is an interesting problem. Are ‘we’ (NATO) under attack? What would be the reason to answer ‘no?’
Well the attack is not lethal. (But if the DOS shut down a hospital or something, would it then be an attack?)
The attackers are not for-sure operating under the control of the Russian government. OK, but would it be a non-attack if individuals in Russia were say, sending anthrax into NATO by the posts? Is it not the Russians responsibility to control such vandals?
What if they were government employees acting without authorization? What if the attacks came from servers at some state-owned university?
Of course I suspect it is just The Machines shutting down communications in preparation for the Judgement Day attack.
I saw a documentary on TV that said it was all about the US letting the Chinese get hold of an important Russian circuit board. If we didn’t get it back they were going to attack our bases.
No, “we” are not under attack, because “we” are not an Internet server.
This is just a bunch of hackers directing malicious traffic at a number of Internet servers with the intent of shutting them down. People call it an “attack”, and I have no problems with that term, but it is really a metaphor - what is really happening is what is really happening.
No, it would be gross negligence by the hospital for having technology that is vulnerable to such an “attack”.
These are valid questions but I think you should drop the mention of “Russians” from your formulation. There’s nothing particular about Russia or Russians that makes them deserving of singling out in this fashion.
If someone bombed a runway, would that be an attack? Are “we” a runway? I am not following your line of reasoning here.
I do not think I singled out the Russians. I was attempting to discuss the difficulty of knowing if you are under attack in this modern era.
This is an attack on Estonia, it is depriving them of necessary services that they need to continue the healthy functionality of their nervous system. It might not be the Russian government, but it might be.
I was under the impression that the Estonians were basically acting like a bunch of jerks. The statue in question was commemorating (marking?) a mass grave of Russian soldiers from WW2, so you’ve got that touchy little subject going for it. Second, it was located in an area with a large amount of ethnic Russians, making it a local slap in the face by a government that has been fairly discriminatory to its Russian populace since the collapse of Soviet power.
I don’t weep for the fall of the USSR, but I don’t see this as terribly different from Hawaii breaking off from the US, and then moving the Pearl Harbor Memorial to a “more convenient” location as part of a broader attempt to show how tough and independent they are. It was a purely dick move, so if the Russians are breaking their intarweb I see it as just desserts.
Isn’t the management of its internal affairs sort of what it means to ‘sovereign?’
No way, Grossbottom there have been debates on this board regarding the issue but I believe that the consensus was that the Estonians were entirely within there rights- and many feel that they were justified as well. Exactly as Hawaii would be in moving a statue to Pearl Harbour.
And I entirely disagree about Estonia discriminating against ethnic Russian’s, the only thing I can think of is the basic requirement for Estonian to be spoken by all citizens- I believe a lot of Americans are seeking something similar?
And Frankenstein I don’t understand what you’re saying either, would it be gross negligence for hospital equipment not to be ‘bomb proof’?
And yes they are bringing in professionals, check the articles about them getting assistance from NATO’s computer experts and remember that they have plenty of home-grown talent- this far beyond the casual hacking attacks that you get from Polish and Turkish kids.
BTW, that article you posted dates to 2002- things have changes a bit since then when every few months something or the other was gonna destroy the internet.
But having the right to do something doesn’t mean you should do it. Of course they were within their rights. If my neighbor sets up a bunch of bird feeders and birdbaths, she’s within her rights. And if I decide to start pellet-gunning the little birdies when they cross over my property line and displaying their tiny crucified bird bodies all facing the direction of her home, well, I’m within my rights.
But one of us is definitely not being a nice person or a decent neighbor. I, in the above scenario, am acting like a total dick. That statue wasn’t hurting anyone, the Estonians just wanted to take a giant dump all over the Russian minority living in Estonia, and give the finger to Russia as a whole. They did it by insulting Russian war dead and that’s just utterly classless.
Exactly. A theoretically independent Hawaii that did that would be disrespectful, insulting and completely within its rights, and continental America would be pissed beyond measure, and rightfully so. There wouldn’t be violence but I’m sure there would be some economic consequences to the action.
Which, according to your argument, gives your neighbor the right to burn your house down.
Well, Russia has almost succeeded in a social engineering DOS attack on America. I, for one, can barely resist the urge to have my fingers type the obvious. Darn Commies!
Really? That was my argument? I thought I said that I was fine with it if the Russians got a shot in, which is different than affirmatively stating that they have the legal right to do it. I’m pretty sure that’s what I said.
Why was there a memorial to Russian war dead in Estonia? Wouldn’t that be kind of like putting a memorial to William T. Sherman in Atlanta? (The trouble with allegories like this is that people nitpick the parallels.) At any rate, I can imagine there was a lot of resentment for a very long time over that statue. True, if Estonia had been interested in not pissing off the Big Bear, it could have asked Russia to join in moving the memorial to a “more appropriate” spot. And that’s assuming the statue was the real reason for the Internet interference, that it’s actually Russia doing it, and so on. The more facts that come out, the harder it is to care about this east European pissing contest.
Russia enjoys being a dick with all surrounding states - you only have to look at recent elections and oil blockades to see that. That people are OK with a sovereign nation coming under electronic bombardment for moving a statue is ridiculous.
I visited Estonia as well as some other Baltic states last summer. Estonia and neighbouring countries are riddled with hideous, garish monstrosities, relics from their subjugation under the USSR.
The statue was probably moved for aesthetic reasons, more than anything.
Didn’t Estonia pass a law limiting citizenship to descendants of people living in Estonia before the Soviet conquest in 1940? That would require Russians who moved to Estonia since then (and Russian children born there) to apply for naturalization.