I don’t know how far the Brotherhood wants to go, or will go. Practically speaking, their leadership must realize that the first video of a woman being stoned to death that gets out will cost them a LOT of support worldwide. So I suspect there will be people who will resist such blatant savagery. Plus I suspect many Egyptians are going to dislike it just because it’s evil. But I suspect there will be many other less dramatic but still unpleasant consequences for women with the Muslim Brotherhood passing the laws. We’ll just have to wait and see how things play out, at this point. Hopefully Egypt’s people will stay connected to the Internet and more speech, more freedom, and more enlightenment will eventually win the day. It’s a slender thread to pin one’s hopes on, but it’s something.
Note that the first quoted sentence is actually just a version of a so-called official credo of the Muslim Brotherhood. (I can’t find any MB document that officially espouses it, though.)
I join the call for a reliable cite of the actual transcript of Morsi’s May 13 speech or at least of these particular remarks. (A cite in Arabic is okay, I can read Arabic albeit slowly.)
BTW, the talk page for Morsi’s wiki page seems to suggest that Valteron’s quote is doubtful:
http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_05_13/74584752/
“The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal,” Morsi said in his election speech before Cairo University students on Saturday night. Today Egypt is close as never before to the triumph of Islam at all the state levels, he said. “Today we can establish Sharia law because our nation will acquire well-being only with Islam and Sharia. The Muslim Brothers and the Freedom and Justice Party will be the conductors of these goals,” he said.[wiki author] (talk) 12:47, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
I couldn’t find a secondary source, except unreliable ones that cite the Voice of Russia. Trinitresque (talk) 14:31, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23270/language/en-US/Default.aspx Same quote, no source cited, I suppose it’s possible that it’s just the media echo chamber repeating the Voice of Russia writing. Funny how mainstream media hasn’t picked it up, I figured at least Fox so-called News would have.[wiki author] 14:36, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
This: http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/8/46170/World/Region/Egypt-denies-Morsi-gave-interview-to-Irans-Fars-ag.aspx Trinitresque (talk) 15:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
You can’t believe everything you read on the interwebs about what some Muslim politician said in Arabic.
I got that quote out of this article: http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2012/06/25/allen-west-morsi-election-proof-arab-spring-a-radical-islamic-nightmare/
I do not read Arabic so I cannot find you that quote in Arabic. There is also the possibility that such comments were indeeed made by Morsi but would not be posted in English because the MB, like other radical Muslim organizations, likes to present a face of moderation on English-language websites. It is plausible that these comments, tailored to radical Muslims at Cairo University, would only have leaked out indirectly through sites like “Voice of Russia”.
Regarding the video of the cleric calling for a caliphate with its capital in Jerusalem (see link in my OP) I find it difficult to regard this person as simply a fringe lunatic, an Islamic Fred Phelps if you will.
The size and enthusiasm of the crowd seems to contradict that interpretation. Also, there appears to be a fairly official-looking group of men on that platform with him. I do not know all the Egyptian politicians to see them. Does anyone recognize any of them? Is one of them Morsi? Are any of them MB bigshots? That would give us an idea how “marginal” this Hitleresque cleric really is.
Ibn Warraq has alleged in posting no. 2 that the cleric to whom I have linked is a “loudmouth who (says) dumb things”, and a “mere cleric” not a foreign minister.
If you will take a closer look at that video, at - YouTube, you will note, at 0:58, that **MOHAMMED MORSI HIMSELF **is sitting on the stage with that cleric (front row, light grey suit), smiling and showing approval of his comments.
I do not know who the other (exclusively male, you will notice) participants are, but if the Muslim Brotherhood’s presidential candidate is on stage you can bet that many of the MB big shots are there.
Furthermore, look at the size of the crowd and the forest of media microphones in front of the speaker. According to the English title page at 0:11, this cleric is speaking at the launch of Morsi’s campaign. It was broadcast on Al-Nas TV on May 1, 2012, and everything we see in the video is consistent with such an event.
So why is Morsi sitting on stage with this war-mongering, Hitleresque cleric if he does not approve of him? Would Morsi and the MB have been stupid enough to have invited this man to kick off their campaign without checking what he stood for and what he was going to say?
Do you see any evidence that Morsi rejected this man’s opinions or dissociated himself from them?
The ideas espoused by this cleric are clearly consistent with what Morsi and the MB believe. The speech was given in front of an enormous crowd and widely broadcast on Egyptian TV. But if this broadcast had not been translated and made available on Youtube, it would be largely unknown in the west, and apologists for the Islamists could continue to argue that they are really misunderstood moderates.
ZOMG! Have the Christian concentration camps opened their doors yet?!?!
By the way at 0:57, when the fanatical little cleric says that the Caliphate will be established by “this man and his supporters” he points at Morsi, who then nods his head up and down. Now, once again, I do not speak Arabic, but am I safe in assuming that nodding your head up and down is a sign of consent in Arabic societies as well as in the west?

ZOMG! Have the Christian concentration camps opened their doors yet?!?!
Nobody ever said there would be concentration camps. Don’t burn straw men around here, it is against environmental laws.

We’ll just have to wait and see how things play out, at this point. Hopefully Egypt’s people will stay connected to the Internet and more speech, more freedom, and more enlightenment will eventually win the day. It’s a slender thread to pin one’s hopes on, but it’s something.
No, not a slender thread at all. More cultural engagement with the outside world does make a country’s people more enlightened and sophisticated, that has happened countless times over the past two centuries.

ZOMG! Have the Christian concentration camps opened their doors yet?!?!
If you would like to read something serious about the persecution of these people rather than just make flippant jokes about their plight, I recommend you look at the series of Wipedia articles on “Modern Persecution of Coptic Christians.” Many incidents are reported but here is a recent one.
“The 2011 Alexandria bombing was an attack on Coptic Christians in Alexandria, Egypt, on Saturday, 1 January 2011. Twenty three people died as a result of the attack, which occurred as Christian worshipers were leaving a new year service. Some 97 more were injured. The attack was the deadliest act of violence against Egypt’s Christian minority in a decade, since the Kosheh massacre in 2000 left 21 Copts dead. The target of the bombing was the Saints Church, a Coptic church located across the street from the Masjid Sharq El-Madina mosque.”
“Two weeks before the bombing an Islamist website called for attacks on a list of Egypt’s churches, and included the church that was hit.”
“The 2005 Alexandria riot was an anti-Christian riot in the Egyptian port city of Alexandria. The riot erupted on 21 October when 5,000 Muslims staged a demonstration outside St. George’s, a Coptic church, to protest a play they said offended Islam.[1] The situation got out of hand after some protestors began throwing stones at the building and at police who were present at the scene. One hundred people were injured and three died.”
Frankly, Ravenman, I think Coptic Christians in Egypt who are witnessing the rise of an Islamist force like the Muslim Brotherhood do deserve a little respect and compassion from you.

Now, once again, I do not speak Arabic, but am I safe in assuming that nodding your head up and down is a sign of consent in Arabic societies as well as in the west?
Different cultures assign different meanings to the gesture. Nodding to indicate “yes” is widespread, and appears in a large number of diverse cultural and linguistic groups. Areas in which nodding generally takes this meaning include the Indian subcontinent (note that the head bobble also shows agreement there), Iran, Southeast Asia, Western Europe, Latin America and North America. Nodding may also be used as a sign of recognition in some areas.

Frankly, Ravenman, I think Coptic Christians in Egypt who are witnessing the rise of an Islamist force like the Muslim Brotherhood do deserve a little respect and compassion from you.
Actually, I have met with Egyptian Copts in the past (ETA: and I’ve also been to Coptic Cairo) to understand their treatment by the former government as well as other segments of society, and I’m pretty sure I understand the issue better than you.
My comments are not targeted at them, they are targeted at your outlandish exaggerations of the Islamist threat which hides under every rock and crevice. I have my own concerns about the Muslim Brotherhood and what they stand for, but your characterization of them simply goes over the top.

Ibn Warraq has alleged in posting no. 2 that the cleric to whom I have linked is a “loudmouth who (says) dumb things”, and a “mere cleric” not a foreign minister.
Because he is merely a cleric and a loud mouth not a Foreign Minister, as opposed to Israel’s Foreign Minister, Avigidor Lieberman, who’s an open and avowed fascist.
Nevertheless Lieberman’s participation in the Israeli cabinet doesn’t stop you from claiming that Israel is a democracy.
Similarly, lots of American politicians have been introduced at rallies by crazy American clerics yet you don’t insist America isn’t a democracy.
I assume you’re familiar with Rick Warren who hosted debates between John McCain and Barack Obama, and was invited by Barack Obama to give the opening prayer at his inauguration and who has compared gays to pedophiles and those engaging in bestiality.
So why is Morsi sitting on stage with this war-mongering, Hitleresque cleric if he does not approve of him? Would Morsi and the MB have been stupid enough to have invited this man to kick off their campaign without checking what he stood for and what he was going to say?
For the same reason American politicians trip all over themselves to be photographed with Rick Warren. Politics makes strange bedfellows.
Here is a chilling thought. The Youtube video at - YouTube clearly shows Mohammed Morsi smiling and agreeing with the extremist and warmongering cleric who helped kick off his campaign.
But if the Memri service had not put a translated version of this video on YouTube, I am sure most of the posters on this thread would be telling me that there is no evidence that he ever endorsed or agreed with those concepts, just as they are insisting that there is no firm evidence he made those comments in his speech to Cairo University. If Morsi were not clearly shown as being on stage with the cleric, the apoligists of Islamism would be insisting that this cleric is nothing but an Egyptian Fred Phelps, a marginalized fanatic that nobody listens to.

I got that quote out of this article: http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2012/06/25/allen-west-morsi-election-proof-arab-spring-a-radical-islamic-nightmare/.
Translation, you got the quote from an Islamophobic whackjob, not from a reliable source.
Why is no one surprised.

Because he is merely a cleric and a loud mouth not a Foreign Minister, as opposed to Israel’s Foreign Minister, Avigidor Lieberman, who’s an open and avowed fascist.
Nevertheless Lieberman’s participation in the Israeli cabinet doesn’t stop you from claiming that Israel is a democracy.
Similarly, lots of American politicians have been introduced at rallies by crazy American clerics yet you don’t insist America isn’t a democracy.
I assume you’re familiar with Rick Warren who hosted debates between John McCain and Barack Obama, and was invited by Barack Obama to give the opening prayer at his inauguration and who has compared gays to pedophiles and those engaging in bestiality.
For the same reason American politicians trip all over themselves to be photographed with Rick Warren. Politics makes strange bedfellows.
It is usually a pretty good indication that I am in the right when my opponents keep resorting to “tu quoque” arguments. Obama has clearly distanced himself from Rick Warren by his stand on DADT and gay marriage. Also, was Rick Warren making his comments about gays at the innauguration while Obama sat beside him on the stage nodding at smiling at his comments, as Morsi clearly does? And also, is this Egyptian cleric just reciting a prayer, or is he calling for “millions of martyrs” to attack Israel?
Re: Your comment about “Avigidor Lieberman, who’s an open and avowed fascist”. “Open and avowed” usually means that the person himself has openly avowed that they are such-and-such, such as, for example, a public figure openly admitting they are gay. Do you have a statement in which Lieberman says he is a fascist? If not, don’t say he is “open and avowed”.

It is usually a pretty good indication that I am in the right when my opponents keep resorting to “tu quoque” arguments. Obama has clearly distanced himself from Rick Warren by his stand on DADT and gay marriage. Also, was Rick Warren making his comments about gays at the innauguration while Obama sat beside him on the stage nodding at smiling at his comments, as Morsi clearly does? And also, is this Egyptian cleric just reciting a prayer, or is he calling for “millions of martyrs” to attack Israel?
Re: Your comment about “Avigidor Lieberman, who’s an open and avowed fascist”. “Open and avowed” usually means that the person himself has openly avowed that they are such-and-such, such as, for example, a public figure openly admitting they are gay. Do you have a statement in which Lieberman says he is a fascist? If not, don’t say he is “open and avowed”.
Apologies.
I did not realize how ignorant you were of Israel.
I assumed you were familiar since you have such a weird obsession with all things involving Islam.
Lieberman is the head of Yisrael Beiteinu, a fascist party which calls for stripping Israeli Arabs of their citizenship, their motto being “no loyalty, no citizenship”.
If you objected to fascism and racism I’d assume you’d object to this, but since you freely admit you support racist, fascist thugs in Europe, I assume you cheer on the persecution of Muslim Israelis though possibly you’re a bit upset about the persecution of Christian Israelis.
Also, if you don’t mind.
Why is it that you get all hot and bothered about Egypt’s treatment of the Copts yet you don’t seem to give two shits about the exodus of Christian Arabs from Israel to the point that there are now more Christian Palestinians in Chile than in Palestine/Israel?

Translation, you got the quote from an Islamophobic whackjob, not from a reliable source.
Why is no one surprised.
Translation: Like the Youtube video I cited, the Muslim Brotherhood probably did not publicize his Cairo university speech in English because that is not the face they want to show to the west. But if you refuse to accept that he ever said that, let’s not belabour the issue.
But now look at the video. Does it clearly show Morsi sitting on a stage in front of a huge audience on May 1, smiling and showing agreement while a militant Islamist nutjob calls for “millions of martyrs”. Yes or No?
Now, if the Memri service had not made this available in English translation, and if you could not see Morsi clearly participating in this warmongering fascist rally, you would no doubt once again claim that I just got this from an Islamophobic nut job and that Morsi never did that.
But now that the evidence of the video clearly shows that he did indeed participate at this event, you have obviously fallen back to your second line of defense. You can argue that all right, Morsi did participate and apparently approve of this nutjob who was chosen by MB to kick off his campaign in what looks like a keynote adress, but hey, Obama had a homophobic cleric reading a prayer at his inauguration, sop everything is all right, folks. Go back to sleep.
To give you a serious response: no, Egypt has not yet turned into an Islamist nightmare. For all the concern about what the Muslim Brotherhood really wants to do with its electoral victories, most observers seem to indicate that they are not prepared to be the Taliban and turn the country over to radical dogma, and that the approach to governance will probably have to be a mix of their own brand of fundamentalism tempered by pragmatism.
For example, this article in the Christian Science Monitor indicates that Morsi and his party are “pragmatic and cautious” and quoted his victory speech, in which he said, “We Egyptians, Muslims, and Christians … are advocates of civilization and construction.”
This analysis piece by the Voice of Russia directly states that there will likely be significant continuity in various policies from the prior government. And this article from the BBC discusses how other countries are approaching the election results with caution, not alarm.
So, it’s fine to take a wait-and-see approach. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the proof of what the Muslim Brotherhood wants for Egypt will be in their policies. This clearly is not a crisis.
And as for the question about whether anyone “imagined” this outcome after the former government fell, I would ask: Who didn’t see that the Muslim Brotherhood would play a bigger role in the future of Egypt? It was pretty damn obvious, but predictions of Taliban-like rule in Egypt are totally and completely unfounded at this point.

I got that quote out of this article: http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2012/06/25/allen-west-morsi-election-proof-arab-spring-a-radical-islamic-nightmare/
And the link that your article used as a cite for that quote is precisely the same “Voice of Russia” URL whose reliability has been questioned: http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_05_13/74584752/

I do not read Arabic so I cannot find you that quote in Arabic. There is also the possibility that such comments were indeeed made by Morsi but would not be posted in English because the MB, like other radical Muslim organizations, likes to present a face of moderation on English-language websites. It is plausible that these comments, tailored to radical Muslims at Cairo University, would only have leaked out indirectly through sites like “Voice of Russia”.
:dubious: Why would the English-language version of a Russian government broadcasting service be a medium for “leaking” the details of a public speech that apparently no other English-language news medium would get hold of? You think that international news organizations publishing in English don’t have Arabic-speaking reporters following Egyptian elections?
In short, while I certainly don’t think it’s impossible that Morsi made the remarks in the May 13 speech that are attributed to him by this one source, I still think it hasn’t been convincingly substantiated.

Of course, you know crazy old Islamophobic Valteron
Sadly, we sure do.
Nazi rally with Hitler screaming that he will exterminate Poland?
…
“Lebensraum”
…
religious fascism?
…
war-mongering, Hitleresque cleric
Godwinized in your own OP. I will grant you this much, at least you haven’t yet used the word ‘Islamofascism.’