Detecting a misogynist may be a more difficult thing these days, but there is nothing subtle about the concept: a person who, for whatever reason, hates women.
A concern with watering down the use of “misogyny” so that it means something other than, and lesser than, “woman hating”, is that inevitably if one started to use the (now suddenly useful) “woman hating” term, it will get watered down in its turn.
It seems to be a semantic process similar to the “ephemism treadmill”, by which a label for a concept everyone can agree is broadly speaking “bad” (say, woman-hating) is gradually applied to a broader and broader category of actions (which may also be “bad”, but on whose ‘bad-ness’ there is less universal agreement) as part of the process of semantic and social change; the idea being, I assume, that in so labelling these “less-bad” actions, those who believe they are bad seek to convince others by association.
The damage (if damage there be) is to subtelty and complexity of expression. Perhaps it is like unto Canute attempting to hold back the tide and oppose such meaning drift.
Plenty of other posters here have given examples of where they think the word is being poorly used. I don’t see any need for a “me too” post regarding those.
I disagree. The word is a composite, derived from the Greek “to hate” and “women”. Its meaning, naturally enough, is usually cited as “…a hatred of women”.
Seems odd to me to argue hatred isn’t a necessary component of its meaning.
As I’ve already said, attempting to restrict the definition of the word to its literal Greek roots is as specious and tendentions as attempting to argue that “Homophobia” must be defined as a literal fear of homosexuals.
The word “misogyny” encompasses a much broader range of attitudes than just the most literal, angry hatred.
Is making women wear burkas misogynist? Those who do it swear they don’t hate women.
Seems the dictionaries disagree with you. The vast majority of them state that the meaning of the word is “hatred of women”. Do you have a cite for what in means other than that, other than a mere “I say so”?
In contrast, look up “homophobia” in the same dictionary:
I do not disagree that some people have been using the word to mean something other than actual hatred of women - but as far as I’m concerned, this extention or watering down of its meaning is a mistake.
Modern-day misogyny encapsulated into a single phrase: “But is she hot?”
If she isn’t hot, she better be making him a sandwich or nursing his son because these are her only saving graces.
If she is hot, here are a list of things that she can’t also be:
intelligent
strong
nice
non-manipulative
non-slutty
If a woman is in power, she’s either 1) a lesbian or 2) a slut who slept with the boss. (That is, unless she’s black…then it’s because of affirmative action, but I digress.)
Anything written, produced, or performed by a woman automatically stinks.
Any time a woman disagrees with a man, she’s being hysterical and irrational.
A woman can not be taken seriously if she looks or sounds feminine.
These are all ideas that are flavored with misogyny. Some involve more “hate” than others, but it comes back to devaluing women and treating them like lesser creatures.
I do Malthus, from the ultra-authoritative Oxford English Dictionary, by far the most thoroughly researched dictionary in English, with citations extending back (in the case of this entry) to the seventh century. According to this source “misogyny” means
Prejudice pretty much covers the kind of misguided assumptions that don’t amount to overt hatred or dislike which have been referred to in this thread.
That said, I agree the word misogyny shouldn’t be overused.
But I’d also maintain that misogyny may be quite subtle (so subtle that the person isn’t aware of his–or her–hatred, dislike or prejudice against women even though it runs very deep and shapes actions as well as perceptions).
I specifically used the word “resentment” in my previous post because it describes a real kind of animus that I think many women face–as workers, as wives, as parents, etc.–which is hardly ever perceived by the person who is feeling it and expressing to be the result of any kind of active hatred or dislike.
I just noticed in another thread a poster basically saying "I hate doing job XYZ because its almost always women doing the work and these women do stupid ABC things which I hate "
Is that worthy of the M word?
Does it make a difference whether the person’s observation is actually true or not?
Does it make a difference whether the poster is a woman or not ?
P.S. I can’t provide you to a link to the Oxford English Dictionary because it isn’t a free resource. However, my guess is that you can look at it through your local public library, which probably has a subscription you can use, if you wish to check the citation more fully.
Do you or anyone else really need that to make a decision? If its not detailed enough, create your own more detailed but relevatnt version that is or isnt M and why it is or isnt M.
I have no desire to drag some other random poster into a debate because of what they posted elsewhere. In hindsight I shouldnt even have mentioned it being a poster somewhere else. Please respect the other posters right to be left alone despite my slip up here.
Often, the meaning of “prejudice” is used essentually as synonimous with “hatred”:
Emphasis added.
Clearly, such a use of “prejudice” - i.e., “irrational hostility” - is fully consistent with “hatred”, and it seems to me obvious that it is in this sense that the Oxford Dictionary is using the word - not in some other sense that contradicts the notion that the word is intended to convey the meaning of hatred towards women.
In short, what we have here is multiple cites which use the single meaning of “hatred” and one which, in addition, uses the term “prejudice” as an additional example. Seems to me that they are not contradictory. So I disagree with this:
This does not necessarily follow, since the term “prejudice” itself can mean “irrational hostility”.
What is required is a cite that actually says that “misogyny” does not require some sort of hatred, dislike, or hostility directed towards women.
What you’ve described is hardly modern misogyny. It’s archaic sexism.
I’ve worked in a variety of environments, some predominantly male environments and some predominantly female. And, being a guy, I’ve been in the secret, guy-only, conspiratorial conversations that we regularly schedule.
And seriously I’ve never met guys who talk or think the way you describe. Honestly I can’t think of a single example.
I’m not saying misogyny doesn’t exist, I’m saying I doubt that your description matches most misogynists.
That “cocksucker” guy from the HBO series Deadwood would probably be a decent example. Though to be fair the character lived in tough times and had a bad childhood.