I have a problem. The problem, as will soon be outlined me, is this. We are an open message board, a message board devoted to fighting ignorance. A message board that attracts a wide variety of people. Some of those people have different attitudes about life than I do. Some of them have different attitudes about words. Some of those people think it’s acceptable to use the word fag when referring to homosexuals. They use this word as a hatefull spitefull word. I’m not ok with that. Other’s feel it’s acceptable to use the word cunt when refering to women. I’m not ok with that either. I’ve seen the vagina monolouges and all that, and what you do in your own bedroom between consenting adults is fine. When words are used in a joking friendly manner it’s ok. When this word is used as a hatefull ephitat, I have a big problem with it. Please think before you post. Do you really want to come off as a mysoginist?
All over this board, I sense a very real undercurrent of ugly feelings towards women.
I agree. Why is it that certain people cannot rant about a woman without being thorough knuckle dragging neanderthal misogynists? While no word is sacrosanct, suggestions of ‘fuck you in the hole,’ et al dehumanize and reduce people to body parts.
I don’t know that I would go so far as to say it’s all over the boards. But there do seem to be a few very vocal ones out there lately, one in particular that I shan’t name because I have no respect for him whatsoever and can’t be bothered to type his name.
I am happy to say that most men on this board are more like you, oldscratch.
“Fag” is not inherently negative. But when it’s used as an insult, it serves to demean both the person insulted and homosexuals in general. Similarly, “cunt,” while having no intrinsic moral value, is doubly hateful when used as an insult.
(Near as I can tell, the vagina is really neat. Why would it be used to insult? Only if vagina = bad. As a heterosexual man, I cannot accept that.)
Personally, I find “cunt” to be a verbal nuke, to be used only in extreme circumstances. While I realize many do not agree, the fact is that many more do. And anyone who uses the word knows this, and is only using it to shock or offend people.
I find it a lot more effective to insult people using proper vocabulary than to resort to Anglo-Saxon expletives that really just grunts of rage and hatred. The C- word, being a derogation of one-half of the human race, is particularly vile.
I dunno. I tend to agree that saying mean things isn’t nice.
However, the odd fascination with language deconstruction that occurs always puzzles me. People say things differently. I always figure it’s pretty pointless to argue with the way somebody says something, and makes much more sense to argue against the actual underlying meaning.
I personally would rather be hit with a generic off-the -rack insult like “motherfucker” or “asshole” then have somebody take the time and calculatedly tailor an insult designed specifically for me.
On the other hand, I consider it a matter of personal pride that when I wish to insult someone, I try to do so as intensely personally and originally as possible.
The difference is of course that between the amateur and the pro.
The most horrible and damaging of insults are always couched in the most polite and acceptable language.
The cunters and faggers are mostly worthy of scorn due to their unoriginality, IMO, and reveal themselves through their generic usage and thought processes as to be generally beneath contempt.
The worst insult when I was a kid, one guarranteed to start a fist-fight was “Your mother sucks moose-cock.” Kinda silly.
Well Scylla I’m glad you responded. We’ve had this conversation before. I guess, what really gets me about the c word is what andros was saying. When someone says it, it instantly brings to mind images of the very real power men hold over women. I don’t want to make women out to be a weaker sex, but they are a minority, in the same way that African Americans, or hispanics, or homosexuals are. They face discrimination and hate crimes, specificly the crime of rape. Yes, I know that white men face these problems too sometimes, but much less frequently. When I hear someone say cunt, I get the image in my mind of a very anrgy man trying to put a woman back in her place, remind her that he could beat her up, rape her, that she makes less money than him. That she is a second class citizen. It doesn’t matter if these things are true. I suppose that’s one of the most hurtful things you can do to someone, remind them that they are lacking certain powers and privledges that you have. To you, it may not be personal, but to someone who has been attacked by a carload of frat boys, screaming FAG, the word fag brings back all those images, it is intesely personal. As a white heterosexual male, you generally don’t have to deal with it. Cunt falls under the same heading.
I’m a male oriented towards females and I’ve been called “fag” and “cunt” in anger and in an attempt to insult me. If I were going to use either word myself (which would have to be in an atypical context), it would not be as an insult.
::cheers and salutations to all proudly self-defined fags and cunts, also bitches, sluts, and queers::
You can tell a lot about the attitudes and perceptions of a person by the things they yell at others when they are mad at them!
You are, of course, completely right in what you have said. I hope I said nothing to lead you to think I felt differently.
The generic cursers don’t bother me much (I’d probably feel a lot differently if they jumped out of a pick up truck to bash me,)as they tend to be generally hopeless as far as reasoning ability goes.
The people who cause me the greatest anger are those that are savvy enough to know what not to say, and who conceal their hate-filled attitudes and generally low levels of humanity within the framework of acceptable language, and within the guise of righteous causes.
You can look at the former and theoretically say that the person doesn’t have enough neurons intact to realize what a terrible thing he’s doing. That person’s just like a nasty dog, certainly to be avoided, but not really worthy of hate.
The latter though is somebody who is knowingly,and deliberately, and calculatedly evil. That person knows the effects and consequences.
Um… according to the CIA’s World Factbook at http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html, there are 134,774,894 males in this country and 140,787,779 females. Whatever else women may suffer in the U.S., they are not a minority.
It’s time for us to band together, boys, and retake this nation for ourselves!
[sub]No, not really. I’m just reminded of the Bloom County strip where Milo realizes that white heterosexual republican males are a minority. Power, brother.[/sub]
Bricker, I’m afraid that you have allowed the statistical facts to obfuscate your view of the post in reference. Perhaps oldscratch should have used, “treated like a minority,” to be more technically correct, but his argument still stands as valid.
This is such a sordid sociaety in which we live. “Cunt” is one of the most mind boggling “insults” thrown casually and freely today. That is word is used as an insult is both digusting and regressive of our society which likes to name itself as progressively open minded. Cunt is a word for vagina, and for this to be an insult, then the vagina itself would have to be viewed negetively. Personally, I derive great joy and pleasure from the female body, and as females in today’s society proudly break through gender roles and discrimination, the vagina is become more and more a symbol of power. A cunt is not negetive, but a thing of beauty.
Then why do even woman call each other cunt and mean that in the most negetive way possible? Why do they demean themselves? Why do people cringe when they hear that word even used in a positive context? Because our society is full of bigotry, insecurity, and pieces of shit who claim to be intelligent, open minded “individuals”, who are nothing they preach.
This is not just a slap against women, though. Men are called “dicks” as insults as well as “fags”. It almost seems as though this war to end this ignorance will be never sated.
But, if one is treated like an inferior, then one is being treated as if one is a minority.
Regarding dick vs. cunt.
Dick is a far less perjorative term than cunt. If you call someone a dick, it is basically saying that they are being a jerk. If you call someone a cunt, at least in my experience, you are calling that person out in a far more denigration fashion. YMMV.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition. 1992, Houghton Mifflin Company.
Per the second definition, it can easily be argued that women constitute a minority.
As for me, Sua, I think I’d prefer not to see any sexual organ used as an insult. That includes dick, cock, etc. But quoting Saul of Tarsus, “the good I would I do not; the evil I would not, this I do.” :shrug: I’m much more likely to call someone a dick or a cock than a twat or a cooze or a cunt.
Should “dick” and “cunt” be viewed differently? Maybe not. Are they by most people? Of course.
How about, treated as an inferior as minorites are. Does that work? Because that’s what I was trying for, and it seems stupid to pull the thread off topic by a minor detail.
As for SuaSponte
no, for reasons outlined above. Men are not in a position where they’ve had to fight for their rights, or have had rights curtailed by the other sex. Calling them a dick doesn’t serve to put them “in their place”. YOu hear people bragging about what dicks they are.
pussy and vagina don’t have the same vileness that cunt does, I suppose, in context they could. That would make them equally unacceptable.
I agree about the animosity, but barring a word or words from use will not solve the problems that this board is here to fight. Perhaps the use of these words is a good indication or flag that perhaps education is needed. Lenny are you out there?