Fighting misogyny - but "cunt" and "bitch" are still okay words

About This Message Board
#1

If you call a female public figure a “harpy”,that can get you banned.

If you accuse feminists of hypocrisy, in a way that brings your own sincerity into question, your thread gets closed and you get a warning.

If you start a thread about comparing the “hotness” of different tv characters, your thread gets closed.

That’s all in the name of fighting misogyny on these boards. Know what? I’m good with that. We’ve lost too many good female-type posters due to misogyny, and the Boards are the lesser for that.

Sensible rules.

And yet…

In the Pit, calling a female public figure a “cunt” and a “bitch” is just “bad language”, and you’re an asshole if you make a fuss abouth it. So saith Colibri (not in official mod capacity, of course).

But as far as I know, the hate speech restriction isn’t lifted for the Pit. I’m pretty sure if you use the N-- word to describe an African-American public figure, not a member of the Boards, there would be a swift correction, even if it is in the Pit. And well there should. That’s not just “bad language”.

But is that the only word that triggers the hate speech restriction in the Pit? Are ethnic and religious slurs, just “bad language”, like misogynist terms?

In the Pit, are we allowed to use the “K” word for Jews? The “Ch–k” word for people of Chinese orgin? Are those prohibited hate speech, like N–?

Or are those words just “bad language” in the Pit, along with “cunt” and “bitch”, and you’d be an asshole to make a fuss about them?

If Shodan had called the Harvard prof a “harpy” in a Pit thread, would he have been banned?

I’m not trying to play “Gotcha” here. I genuinely do not understand the rationale for one of the most hateful, misogynist terms just being “bad language”, even if we’re talking about the Pit.

#2

You’re not going to pin the mods down on creating a detailed lexicon of which words are okay in which situations and locations.

#3

Really? so you think that using the N- word to refer to a person won’t trigger sanctions?

“Harpy” did. I think anybody who uses it to refer to a female public figure is on notice that there will be consequences.

And again, I want to emphasise that I’m bothered by the approach to those two words about women, in the Pit thread I linked to. Why are nasty racial, and ethnic, and religious slurs problematic, but those two words about women are just “bad language” - in the context of a Board that says it’s fighting misogyny?

#4

It’s obvious the mods were itching to ban Shodan and they didn’t much give a shit if their reason made sense. Don’t expect consistency, and don’t expect anyone to give you a convincing explanation for this decision. As someone mentioned in the other thread, Budget Player Cadet picked up seventeen warnings and several suspensions before he was banned. The mods play favourites, and Shodan wasn’t their favourite. It’s that simple.

#5

C, B, N, K, H. Is there any letter of the alphabet that doesn’t have an association with a bad word?

#6

I’m glad you posted this. I’ve struggled to draw bright lines as well. Largely because I’ve crossed them many times using the word “cunt”. Though I use it in the most English sense as it is universally applicable to both genders.

I’m careful with “bitch” though. I would not use it to insult any woman. I’d call a guy a son-of-a-bitch without hesitation.

Ethnic slurs are right out. No problem with opprobrium when it comes to their use as a directed insult.

Which is to say, insulting terms are so subjective and difficult to frame hard rules around.

Here’s the thing though… the use of terms as they apply strictly to women, like “harpy”, or “shrill”, are clearly misogynistic, so are others, like the “Karen” meme, of late.

Does it strike anyone as paternalistic, patronizing and anti-feminist to try to protect women from these, yes - offensive, but ultimately linguistically normative expressions? And while “kike” and “nigger” are highly offensive in their own right for very good reasons, aren’t they qualitatively different from, “bitch” and “harpy”? And I’m not talking about a 1-10 scale on the insult-o-meter.

Not trying to be controversial. Just want to get a better understanding of the subject.

#7

To be fair, women can be and often are guilty of this type of thing as well. I’ve heard my share of things like “dickhead”, “stupid prick”, “Cro-magnon”, “dumb bastard”, “Troglodyte”, etc, to describe men who have drawn our ire. They are sexist comments designed to assign men a lesser status on the evolutionary scale.

#8

As noted in the other threads, Shodan survived 3 warnings for trolling whereas the average poster only gets one.

Conservatives historically got lighter treatment partly due to working the refs, partly by staying a hair within the letter of the law, but mostly out of exploiting the misguided notion that “diversity of thought” is so important that jerkish behavior merits greater leeway. Thankfully this seems to be changing.

Echo chambers are not ideal, but IMO we don’t have anything like an “echo chamber” here anyway. Somehow, by attrition and fatigue, conservatives have persuaded us that no discussion is really complete without dung-flinging hecklers creating drama and ill will. It was not always thus.

#9

You dont read here much, do you? There are a handful of posters who barter in violent and demeaning language. And, for the most part, are not conservative. They broadbrush an entire group of people and dehumanize them. Boy, we know where this sort of behavior leads us, dont we?

#10

This is especially concerning, since there is an open thread in IMHO right now asking Who is the hottest male celebrity?

#11

And where is WET and White History Month huh?

#12

Guys, take that to the other thread. It belongs there and not in this one.

As for the topic in this one? Odd line in a few ways. I’ve never gotten why ‘bitch’ is considered so rough by women but I acknowledge that it is. Both of my girls - 20 and 15 - assure that it’s guaranteed to start some shit at their high school and college. Fine, there are many things in the world I don’t get but can adapt to. One of my uncles is a damn White Sox fan - we’re north siders - and I still talk to him at Christmas.

‘Cunt’ on the other hand has additional baggage. I certainly see why it’s out of bounds. But to our cross-Atlantic cousins? Well, to (mis)quote Warren Ellis in ‘Crecy’? “There’s this. Cunt. Get used to it. This is an English story. To the English ‘cunt’ is an adjective.” I’m honestly surprised we haven’t seen it more from our UK posters over the years.

#13

I agree with the OP. Since we’re more American than British here, I think calling a woman a c-word should be on the same level as calling an African American the N-word. (I’m not sure how the Canadians view it)

#14

But it doesn’t seem to be out of bounds. There are people who are using it in Pit threads.

#15

An entire handful? Wow. Big, if true.

If this is really happening, report them and open a thread if there’s any uneven moderation to be discussed. The absence of this fact suggests this is just more imaginary conservative persecution.

#16

And for a long while it was banned in the Pit. That rule change was widely criticized at the time and widely cheered when it was rescinded. The Pit is an odd place that most seem to like the way it is and is easily avoided by those that don’t.

#17

I haven’t been here real long, but I’ve already seen a hell of a lot of hypocrisy on this board. IDGAF if someone asks who people think the hottest celebrity is, male or female. Because, shocker, both men and women find men and women attractive. Oh no, gotta hide that! :rolleyes:

I’ve personally seen a LOT more offensive posts from cornflakes2 than Shodan, which is…interesting.

I really honestly don’t care what language is allowed here. I’m not going to collapse in tears because someone calls me a “bitch” because I lean right. At the same time, I get this place doesn’t want to evolve into 4chan, and I really do support that, because 4chan and forums like it are cesspools. So just…come up with a clear set of rules, and stick by them for EVERYONE. People can then decide if this board is for them or leave.

#18

That’s okay with ME, but I find it confusing that those who apply “misogynistic” to words like “cunt” somehow believe it loses its misogyny if it’s used in certain fora (forums? whatever).

Seems strange to me.

#19

A clear set if rules will never exist for this board. A definitive list of words will never be generated.

If these facts are simply too onerous for you then I am sorry but maybe this place isn’t right for you.

#20

So can we use «harpy» in the Pit to describe a female public figure, without getting a warning or the ban-hammer?

Misogynistic terms are okay, so long as you just use them in the Pit?