Has The Whine Level Gone Up Or Is The Circle Still Unbroken?

Great Debates
1

OK, inspired by this current thread – "what’s wrong with me? " and a recent thread from someone chastized by the WalMart clerk from acting like a child by riding in the shopping cart (later raked over the coals by practically all the SDMB posters to the thread) …

Is there an upsurge in current teenagers/young adults(?) acting like spoiled, arrogant, selfish, whiny brats in desparate need of growing up, or is it cyclical where some in every generation whines, but the Internet just exposes us to more of it today?

Am I jaded because I’ve seen several threads along this line because I’m sensitized to it? I see it almost daily in interactions with life in general - you know, those folks who think the world revolves around them. Yeah, yeah, as I said, the’ve always been there to some degree.

But do you think their numbers are increasing? Come to think of it, would the (air | road | postal | yadda, yadda) rage be an observation of such behavior?

FWIW, until recently we have a generation that really has never experienced economic upheavel, war, internal political crisis, etc., the way those who lived through WWII, Vietnam, the 60s, riots, Nixon, 70s oil shocks, yadda, yadda.

Now with September 11, corporate scandals, a queasy stock market, a dubious presidential election (and president?), a weird jobs/unemployment outlook, a potential war with Iraq (with seemingly disasterous consequences at home and abroad), are many unable to deal with it all?

In recalling my youth, I don’t remember the level I see today. Of course, the memory may be bad, or my world at the time did not expose me to it, or maybe, it just wasn’t at the level I see today. I mean, even some children act like God’s gift to the world and display an attitude that a generation ago (a bit further back?) a swift kick up the backside or Lava soap in the mouth would have cured.

(Oh, the horror to discipline a child these days! With all this self-awareness discipline occurring today “you cannot use a red pencil anymore to correct a child’s spelling errors because it doesn’t give positive reinforecent”-ilk, along with this apparent upsurge in shitty attitudes/behaviors, are these issues related or merely coincidence, along with the general decline in taking responsibility for one’s behaviors?)

2

I think so. We live in a society where we are not required to be accountable for our actions. We can always blame society, corporations, cultural bias or anyone else we can sue. People cry that they aren’t getting paid enough or the government isn’t giving them enough benefits or that so and so should take care of them.

As someone who lived through the closing days of 'Nam, the gas shortage, the Cold War, Desert Storm, the golden ambivalent age of Generation X and Sept 11, I think kids these days are just too damn spoiled.

Of course, I am turning 30 soon so maybe I’m just getting old and thinking like my grandparents.

3

Damn whipper-snappers. Why, in the old days, I used to have to walk 20 miles, in the snow, uphill both ways, just to press the “Submit Reply” button. And we didn’t have none of these cushy “In My Humble Opinion” or “Cafe Society” forums… nosirree.

And Coldfire wasn’t a moderator. Everything went to hell when that happened. :smiley:

4

That would be my vote. :wink:

“closing days of 'Nam” and “the gas shortage”?
You are exactly the age of the kids one of my early bosses was discussing when he went on for some time talking about how “they” were spoiled and had no work ethic.

I also heard the same charges leveled at my age group and I’ve seen the same sentiments aimed at the age group just ahead of me.

And, of course, there is

(This was attributed to Socrates by Plato, according to William L. Patty and Louise S. Johnson, in Personality and Adjustment in 1963–but no one has been able to discover an actual Platonic citation for the claim).

While it does not appear to actually date to the fourth century B.C.E., you will note that 1963 actually pre-dated the “60s” as an epoch. The “youth rebellion” of the 60s only got going (slowly) in 1964 and required the combined efforts of war protest and drugs to really take off.

There has been a relaxation of some of the old boundaries of etiquette in the last 30 years. This has been a mixture of blessing and curse. I believe that casual rudeness is more prevalent today (among all groups, not kids), but I also suspect that some of the older, more formal methods of unkindness have fallen by the wayside because they have become meaningless.

While demands for attention and road rage may have increased, I do not believe that simple human kindness has deteriorated–I see acts of kindness every day, among all age groups.

5

After several rereads, I’m not clear on the question. Whining?

Teens and children are a varied lot. We notice the ones that irritate us; we immediate forget the supermarket clerk who smiled and helped us with our change. Because we ourselves (like everyone) believe that we deserve only the best treatment, because…well, just because.

As long as human beings want to be liked–which will be approximately forever, I think–even kids will try to identify the kind of conduct that wins the approval of those around them. Minor “bad conduct” of the sort discussed here (we’re not talking Columbine) is, IMHO, who cannot correct without reproving, and cannot reprove without humiliating.

As to not being able to use a red correction pen and other such canards–does anyone ever investigate whether, and under what circumstances, such things actually occur? Where I live the administrators fall all over themselves not to be viewed as wimps by the parents…who have no time to oversee their offspring, and so demand strictness from their “loco parentis.”

6

“…is, IMHO, LARGELY ATTRIBUTABLE TO THOSE who cannot…”

Sigh.

7

I guess I’m what you’d call an old fogey–I’m 43 and I really haven’t noticed glaring disrespect from any one age group. There are lots of rude, selfish senior citizens and really sweet teenagers. I’ve found that I get good service in retail establishments by slowing down, being nice, and treating the employees like human beings.

8

@43 you haven’t made it yet, but don’t dismay it’ll happen soon enough. :wink:

9

There are some obnoxious kids out there, sure. There are also some who knock my socks off with their general spiffiness. I’m amazed at some kids’ kindness, knowledge, talent, and so on, esp. when I think back to myself at that age and realize how clueless I was, and how whiny we all were at that age.

So, no, I don’t think it’s gotten worse lately. TV and music, on the other hand, has gone all to heck in a handbasket.

10

Ahh…them old people don’t know nothin.

I don’t think my generation’s work ethic is any diferent than in previous generations. There are plenty of people my age who work hard. I think the big diference is that my generation is not as loyal to our employers as my fathers generations. Years of layoffs, corporate restructuring and so on have led to a more mercenary mentality than in the past. We have a good work ethic, we are just working for ourselves, not to make some boss rich.

Every generation tends to romanticize the past and criticize their young people. I just had a similar conversation with someone the other day while watching “Legends of the Fall”. In that movie, as well as movies like “Baggar Vance” and “A River Runs Through It”, they always show this romantic vision of the 20’s and 30’s of nice polite people wearing three piece suits regardless if they partying at the town fair or riding a fence line on their farm. They tend to not show scenes of the local boys dragging a “nig”* around by his hair through the street

*Disclaimer: Use of the word “nig” has been used to reflect the prevailing racism of the time period, not as a commentary on black people or their culture.

11

One thing I have noticed:

These days, even when kids are polite, it seems important that they act non-chalant, detatched, COOL. As if the worst thing they can do is act earnest.

I think this may be a product of the explosion in irony, which is present in the whole culture (hey, Letterman, et al are NOT teenagers).

Possibly, then, this non-chalance gets misinterpreteted by us old fogeys (I’m 43) as surliness? I dunno.

12

One thing I have noticed:

These days, even when kids are polite, it seems important that they act non-chalant, detatched, COOL. As if the worst thing they can do is act earnest.

I think this may be a product of the explosion in irony, which is present in the whole culture (hey, Letterman, et al are NOT teenagers).

Possibly, then, this non-chalance gets misinterpreteted by us old fogeys (I’m 43) as surliness? I dunno.

13

grumble, grumble, slow server…

14

… “cross their legs”?