Did I miss some major happening in the world, Valteron, when the government decided to nationalize all inns and force every patron to read all the literature placed in the room? Aren’t those hotels, motels, and inns all private enterprises? If you don’t like the stuff they put in there for your perusal, either write a letter of complaint to the management or simply boycott the place.
I’ve stayed at a number of inns around the world and have seen the following in the rooms:
[ul][li]In the UAE: the Qur’an. It was the only religious book in the room.[/li][li]In Singapore: the Analects of Buddha (I think it was a digest version), the Bible (placed by the Gideons).[/li][li]In Japan: a Buddhist text in Japanese and English, the Bible (placed by the Gideons).[/li][li]In the US and Europe: the Bible (also placed by the Gideons).[/ul][/li]
Funny thing, though, is that nobody forced me to open the books and read them. Certainly, nobody forced me to believe what was written in those books in my room.
Fine with me. Just realize that that message is mutually exclusive of taking personal responsibility. That’s all I was saying. I’m not even saying (here) that christianity is wrong, just that it’s not taking personal responsibility.
Tell that to the rich man in Luke 16. He was in torment. How was he able to worry about his family and ask for water, if he was permanently dead?
Anyway, this is really a semantic sidetrack. You think that punishment for sin is permanent death. Fine. Christians still don’t have to pay the punishment for sin, so my point stands. Christians do not have to take personal responsibility.
Scrappy: That cracked me up. I need a bit of entertainment this morning. Thanks.
Shirley: Surely (sorry about that) you’re aware that there is a wide variation in theological matters among the numerous denominations of Christianity and that some of that variation addresses the issue of personal responsibility?
We may have what you view as a spiritual loophole, but we still have personal responsibility for our actions against other people. God won’t undo our wrongs unto the community at large. Spiritually speaking, in the Christian mindset, if we excluded Christ and all took complete personal responsibility for our sin, then there’s no way in hell that we could reconcile our imperfection with God. Pun intended.
If, upon the death of my body, I am unshriven, then yes I will. No amount of appealing to the fact that I went to some building and did some rituals will save me from that.
This is a joke, right? This is a setup? You didn’t answer the question! You answered the question for what will happen if you’re not saved! The whole point of this discussion is what happens to people who are saved. Want to try again?
What is the penalty for sin?
If you are shriven when you die, :rolleyes: will you personally pay the penalty for sin?
Note that question 2 is a question that can be answered with a simple yes or no.
I don’t know why I bother with this. I guess I’m hoping that people will see how ridiculous you look by refusing to answer simple questions and picking every nit and turning a very simple discussion into a tangled mess of semantics, and will realize how ridiculous your religion is.
What in the name of Creation is your PROBLEM?
Will I personally pay the penalty for my sin if I have mitigated its effects? Of COURSE not. Personal responsibility is in the MITIGATION.
Are YOU still paying for things you did that you have made up for?
Do you expect to go to jail at 20 for sassing your teacher when you were 10?
I’m picking no nits.
You’re asking questions that don’t have yes or no answers and then doing a victory dance when someone points that out.
I answered your question. Simply.
I’ve answered it again. Simply.
If you want to do your little happy dance because I believe in personal salvation, that’s great. but you can’t pretend to deny that salvation is earned through taking responsibility for your actions.
The thing that you don’t understand and that you seem incapable of understanding is that forgiveness is a process, not an event. Reconciliation involves being sorry, performing penance, and remaining resolved not to sin any more. It’s not a free pass.
You’re trumpeting some great victory over the religious when you are incapable of realizing that what we profess isn’t what you’re decrying. Religion isn’t what your little anger issue wants it to be, it’s what it is.
Again I think this is a misconception based on an over literal and archaic translation, no fault of your own. The realization of the first truth is not so much that “Life is constant suffering.”, but that “All life suffers.” Life is not something to escape from in Buddhism, it is for living. It is not that life is “in effect, not good”. The guidance of the Buddha was rather, to recognize the bondage of the illusory in that life.
Well, I am not a Buddhist, but I am certainly interested in Buddhism.
The notion that the root of suffering is desire for the impermanent and illusory in life seems central to Buddhism, along with the realization that everything in life is impermanent.
Life is only good if one realizes these truths and follows the 8-fold path. The point I am making is that to an outsider [I’m not a Christian, either], this isn’t awfully different from the notion that humans are doomed by the Fall of Man and are only redeemed by realizing this and accepting the way of Jesus.
In short, the Fall of Man in Christianity performs much the same function as the Noble Truths - both set up the state of humanity as fundamentally and permanently unsatisfactory (unless their teaching is accepted), and both provide a diagnosis for this.
The difference of course is that Buddhism proposes a non-Theistic explaination for this state.
I would go further and propose that some forms of Buddhism allow in effect for enlightenment by grace - for example, the pure land branch: Pure Land Buddhism - Wikipedia
Everyone, I’ve been following this thread closely not really, and while I realize that proselytization should generally be confined to Great Debates, clearly u all need someone to educate u in the definitive scripture on getting through this thing called life, and what lies beyond this mortal coil. Friends, allow be to read to you from the Book of Tafkap, Chapter 4, Verses 18-22:
[18] Electric word, “life”. It meaneth forever and that’s a mighty long time. [19] But I’m here 2 tell u there’s something else – the afterworld. [20] A world of never ending happiness – u can always see the sun, day or night. [21] So when u calleth up that shrink in Gomorrah Hills – u know the one, Dr Everything’ll Be Alright – instead of asking him how much of your time is left, asketh him how much of your mind, baby. [22] 'Cuz in this life, things are much harder than in the afterworld. In this life, you’re on your own. Amen.
Clearly, everyone in this thread is excited… maybe it’s because we’re all going to die. Really, the message here is that u better live now, before the grim reaper comes knocking on your door. Hang tough, children.
I understand your confusion. You must have tried just reading that Gideon Bible from your hotel room (in a feeble attempt to direct this back in the direction of the OP). The Gideon version is not a great study Bible, so you might want to get an annotated NRSV or NIV to help with the understanding.
You also might find additional information from a well-run Bible study class. I feel obiligated to mention the Presbyterians as a good place for those classes, given their nature of analysis and debate in that particular sect’s culture (I only have experience with Baptist, Evangelical and Presbyterian I admit).
Not really, because there is only one Jesus. There are many Bodhis or Buddhas. There have been many guides on the path, nothing is written in stone.
Buddhism isn’t for everybody, and it might not work culturally. I have heard the Dalai Lama emphasize that on at least two occasions. But that doesn’t stop me.
I will not proselytize, because it’s not right. Find your place, live your life happily. I only wanted to clarify a misconception.
