I haven’t heard about atheist Christians before, and I’m not sure it makes sense as a category, but I suppose you could choose to call yourself one. Hello.
I dislike those things about my (largely) patriarchal society, yes, but those are not aspects of the Hindu religion. The caste thing you could at least argue is interwoven with religion, although the major texts of the religion have no justification for it in them. The women thing I cannot blame on the religion, sadly. Apart from that, yes of course it is bullshit. All religion is. There isn’t much vileness in it that I’m aware of though. Feel free to educate me if you know of any.
So, there is finally a small counterbalance to the centuries of proselytising by major religions which still continue their organised attempts to gain converts, particularly among the poorest people in the world, and you feel the need to take up a position against that?
Strange that you should pick on one throwaway parenthetical aside while ignoring the substance of my post.
I’m shocked that you want to play the victim in this manner. My post was questioning the utility of religion as a moral guide, when you anyway know you possess a moral sense that lets you pick and choose from what religion tells you. What I’m holding you personally responsible for is supporting religion’s power when it needs to be curtailed.
Moderate Christianity (which allows for allegorical interpretations of some Biblical texts) is objectively different from fundamentalist Christianity (which doesn’t) - it is not objectively lesser than fundamentalist Christianity.
Not “wrong,” but open for allegorical interpretation. Again, this doesn’t necessarily come at the price of a lessening of one’s religious fervour - it leads to a different type of religion, not a weaker type of religion.
Which fundamentalists? Please be specific. Which specific church holds the true belief, and how did you reach that conclusion?
Where I live, no religion can “claim immunity from criticism.”
After some 150 years of religious freedom and a free market of religious ideas, no one religion has managed to - or even attempted to - claw its way to the top and monopolize the market, to the detriment of all the others. It just hasn’t happened. People pick and choose to their heart’s content, and all is well in the jungle.
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It certainly does claim immunity from criticism in the Islamic world, and in India(where I live), which is about half of humanity.
Where do you live? If it’s the US, then religion does claim special exemption at the very least. As it does also in many European countries. It used to claim much more power at one point, but it is thankfully headed into decline. We should do our best to speed it up.
Monopoly is far from the only market failure, and certainly not the one I was referring to. The failure lies in religion seeking and gaining power for its ideas through means other than the ideas - through violence, through the law, through social intimidation. This has happened in the first world for much of its history, and it continues in most of the developing world today.
But even speaking about just monopoly as a failure, you are incorrect. No religion has attempted to monopolise the market? Are you unaware of the history of the spread of Islam and Christianity? Are you unaware of the penalty for apostasy in Islam? There are maybe three or four large religions in the world, and each would easily qualify as a monopoly if we speak regionally- practically everywhere in the world, one religion dominates its ‘core’ regions.
Secular ideologies are equally capable of “seeking and gaining power for its ideas through means other than the ideas - through violence, through the law, through social intimidation.” So aren’t you really talking about a (potential) problem with the free market of ideas, generally, rather than the free market of religious ideas, specifically?
Did you miss where I wrote that I was referring specifically to the part of the world where I live, and only during the latest 150 years, when the concept of a free market of religious ideas applies? You even quoted that last part.
I never said anything specifically about the market for religious ideas. I was always using the analogy of the market for ideas where religion has attempted to privilege itself and gain power, the way crony capitalism works. And yes secular ideologies could easily do the same and we should guard against any such attempts, but I see no other ideology that is attempting to do so. Socialism/communism tried and failed.
I have no idea where you live, or why you would expect me to know. And since I don’t know, I can’t very well say anything about it can I? I have addressed your point for significant swathes of humanity and history. If you live in either America or Europe, as you almost certainly do, then Christianity was already a monopoly 150 years ago, and it has by and large hung on to that status. Your point is moot.
If all you’re saying is that if and when any ideology - religious or secular - tries to “privilege itself and gain power, the way crony capitalism works,” presumably acting like total douchenozzles in the process, that’s bad and should be stopped, then hella yeah I agree and I think we all do.
I live in Denmark. The Danish State Church had a monopoly on religious matters (more or less) up until ca. 150 years ago. Since then, it has not managed to “hung on to that status” at all.
Since then, the country has had a free market model that has worked just fine, and the religious ideologies haven’t caused any more trouble than the secular ideologies have.
In no way has the country’s widespread moderate Christianity led to, or lent power to, or “enabl[ed] and further[ed]” or given “a veneer of respectability” to fundamentalist Christianity - any more than the country’s widespread socialdemokrati has led to, or lent power to, or “enabl[ed] and further[ed]” or given “a veneer of respectability” to genocidal Stalinism.
If religion were defined by “belief in” (which probably doesn’t mean what you think it means) a holy book, you might, possibly, have some small point there if we looked really hard. But it’s not.
Why do I have the feeling that some people in this thread are against moderate anything? Moderate Democrats, moderate Republics, casual video gamers, people who like both Star Wars and Star Trek, people who like their coffee with milk and sugar… for some folk, it’s hardcore or nothing.
It’s like Doctor Who canon (which for many may as well be a religion); there’s acres of it that contradicts past and future episodes, but the fans explain away the contradictions. There’s episodes and facts that are embarrassing or out of fashion, so they are ignored or explained away (“The Doctor’s half-human!”). There’s tons of apocrypha and outer-canon not officially endorsed, but fans can pick and choose as they personally see fit into their own canon (the Big Finish Audios, the comics, the books and so on). But the Bible is the TV show, which fans are just as willing to be picky about or ignore the contradictions.
Does this mean that those who ignore the Doctor’s claim to be half-human, or overlook that the First Doctor almost brained a caveman, or that Time Lords are inexplicably dull and repressed despite their enormous power, are somehow deficient? Nah.
I am a big fan of David Allen’s “Getting Things Done” productivity method. It has really helped me to become more organized, understand my workflow, and identify my priorities at work. Indeed, I’d say David Allen’s books have a lot of wisdom and even truth about productivity, and if think a lot of people would benefit from adopting his methods like I have.
But I don’t use all of his methods exactly as outlined in his books. I don’t expect his books to be the flawless theory of everything, even if I do think they are generally wise and insightful. Some of his methods don’t make sense in my workplace. And some of them aren’t helpful or relevant to me. So I do the parts that make sense.
But I do use most of them- I find value in the coherent system he has developed, which has been used and refined for decades-- even if I find some bits kind of silly or some of his explanations a little unlikely. I like drawing on something established, with documentation and a culture around it, rather than trying to make up every thing for myself.
And of course there are other productivity methods with value. One of the big advantages of Allen’s method is they have evolved in a culture like mine- an American office. It plays well with other aspects of American office life, and it makes sense to my team. But if I worked on an assembly like or in a creative workplace, or even a workplace that has largely adapted another method, Allen’s methods might not be the best one for me to follow.
It is my understanding that people in the R C C were not discouraged to read the Bible, but that the Church was the only true interpreter, given that right by The quote of Jesus ;" You are Peter and on this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it;"This of course could have been added after the council of Niacea.
I have talked to Christians of several denominations, Most of them have never thought about what the Bible says. They do not think about for an example: why Jesus’s followers didn’t believe him about the resurrection that he said he would raise from the dead in 3 days. The fact That we take a human’s word that it was written or inspired by God. Belief is really believing in a human who said God told them something.
To me religion is a tool to help a person through life, they make a choice to believe what ever they feel helps them. I am not of any religion, but I respect the right of all people to have their own beliefs, but not try to impose their beliefs on other’s and understand that our founding fathers experienced cases of where the Religion ran the State or the State ran religion, and that is why we in the USA are fortunate to have separation of Church and State, meaning no one should or can legally stop some one from practicing their religion as long as it brings no harm to another. Many Christians I know do not really follow what they claim to believe.