Have you ever known a truly evil person?

[April_R]

@gracer

For the discussion on the nature of evil it might be good to consider that to some extent “evil” is a concept of the abrahamic religions; it’s not necessarily universal.

Good has two opposites:
good <-> bad
good <-> evil

Many cultures only really have the “good <-> bad” distinction.

Regarding people I’ve met we might classify as evil:

I once stood face to face with the father of two of the kids at the orphanage where I worked. He had molested them so badly and from such a young age that they had both had have operations. He had kept them locked up in the basement and had rented them out. It was horrific. He had called regularly from prison, trying to speak with them.

When the girls heard his voice they both hid under they bed. One of them wet herself. I went out to the gate, I took one of the big boys and a machete. I told him to run. I hope he is grateful that I didn’t rip his throat out, because I still wish I had.

When I got back to the dorm the other girls had formed a ring around the bed the girls were hiding under. Those two girls are doing fantastically well.

I cried, that is awful. How can someone do that to a child, nevertheless their own child.

[gracer]

@April_R

I cried, that is awful. How can someone do that to a child, nevertheless their own child.

Sorry. The kids there had some pretty bad backgrounds. But be happy: as I said, the girls are doing fantastically well. They have a new family in the orphanage, and they know that there are probably a hundred people there, along with “tia gracer”, who would take a machete to this guy’s face if he ever dares show up again. Take that, evil!

[Malthus]

@Mr.Excellent

This may be true of some drugs, and some people. But both of the weed dealers I’ve met were perfectly nice people - not sociopath-charming, but genuinely kind and centered sorts. Admittedly, neither of them dealt full-time; they both had (well-paid and responsible) day jobs. The dealing was more a favor for friends than anything else.

I’m having a Steppenwolf flashback:

You know the dealer, the dealer is a man
With the love grass in his hand
Oh but the pusher is a monster
Good God, he’s not a natural man

[Scumpup]

@April_R

I cried, that is awful. How can someone do that to a child, nevertheless their own child.

In the early '90s I worked at a residential treatment center where the daughters of this piece of shit were placed while he was in a cell awaiting trial. Such scumbags are depressingly common.

[tdn]

@scratch_llll

I don’t have a dog in this hunt but your “analogy” is crap. You cannot “transplant” yourself into anothers brain. Our brains are who we are. Change them and we are not ourselves. It’s theoreticly possible to change bodies but change brains or share brains is impossible. That’s a no brainer. Brains R Us.

Wow, I don’t think that you could have misinterpreted Simple Linctus any worse. He was not talking about an actual brain transplant, which we all know is not currently a common medical procedure. He’s talking about a form of empathy.

That’s a no brainer.

[Sailboat]

@bump

We should probably define evil. A lot of what’s described here is more extreme self-centeredness, which doesn’t make someone evil, per se.

They may do things that are wrong, hurtful, cruel, malicious or vindictive, but it’s always in the context of being extremely, relentlessly self-centered.

It’s the ones who do that stuff because they find it fun, or because they like to watch people or animals be injured, killed, squirm, suffer or otherwise be discomfited by these actions that I’d count as evil.

For example, the corporate CFO who does something that screws a bunch of retirees because it gets him a bonus isn’t necessarily evil, but self-centered and lacking conscience.

The CFO who does something like that simply because he wants to watch people squirm and hear them cry would be classed as evil.

I disagree. My working definition of evil is: “inflicting, or tolerating the infliction of, harm on others for any sort of personal gain.” Motivation is opaque and unknown to you and me. You will never know if your CFO really “enjoyed” the suffering he caused, or just did it for the profit. You do know, however, that he did it and that he benefited in some way (any way will do; doesn’t have to mean cash income). That’s all you’ll get to know when you have to decide who is or is not evil; so that’s all you can use. I’m perfectly comfortable with labeling someone who starves someone else for money “evil,” if we label anything evil, whether or not he did so by walling them up in a catacomb with a cask of Amontillado, or by reneging on a guaranteed pension plan.

@scratch_llll

Evil is as banal and simple as total selfishness whether that is taking someones last bite to eat when they are starving for its minor craving or raping a baby to death for its momentary pleasure. Evil is boring in its predictable self centeredness. It isn’t some demon from the pit of hell.

Yeah.

[Crafter_Man]

@tdn

Wow, I don’t think that you could have misinterpreted Simple Linctus any worse. He was not talking about an actual brain transplant, which we all know is not currently a common medical procedure. He’s talking about a form of empathy.

That’s a no brainer.

It’s really a matter of opinion.

Many in the PC crowd apparently do not believe a human can be inherently bad or evil. They believe a person who is bad/evil has a medical problem, and is thus not responsible for their behavior and actions.

I disagree. IMO, there are three kinds of individuals:

1. Good
2. Bad
3. Crazy / mentally unstable

In other words, and IMO, a bad person is not necessarily crazy or mentally unstable. IMO, many perfectly sane people are just bad/evil.

And a crazy/unstable person is not necessarily bad. Many are good.

[April_R]

@tdn

Wow, I don’t think that you could have misinterpreted Simple Linctus any worse. He was not talking about an actual brain transplant, which we all know is not currently a common medical procedure. He’s talking about a form of empathy.

That’s a no brainer.

How do you empathize with someone who has no empathy? It is a futile exercise to try and imagine what it would be like to be a sociopath because most of us aren’t capable of suspending our empathy. That is what makes (most of) us non-sociopaths:dubious:.

[tdn]

@April_R

How do you empathize with someone who has no empathy? It is a futile exercise to try and imagine what it would be like to be a sociopath because most of us aren’t capable of suspending our empathy. That is what makes (most of) us non-sociopaths:dubious:.

Maybe sympathize is a better word. It takes an understanding that some people are really lost in their own worlds that make perfect sense to them but very little to us. And there are truly some people, who through no fault of their own, are just not wired for empathy.

I truly don’t believe that many people have this as their to-do list:

7:00 Work out, take shower
8:00 Breakfast with mom
9:00 Go grocery shopping
11:00 Commit unspeakable acts of evil, because it’s fun fun fun
3:00 Take nap

In their minds, their 11:00 task might read more like “Rid the world of evil” or “Enjoy life” or even “Go to work.”

This is not to say that we should give them a pass on what they do, or continue to let them live among free people.

[elbows]

Take that, evil!

Indeed!

Tia Gracer - you rock!

Thanks for being so awesome and never stop fighting the good fight!

[Toffe]

I used to believe what we considered “evil” - i.e. getting pleasure from causing suffering - was just mental sickness, and that sociopathy/amoralism was the closest humans could get to being “evil” without necessarily being insane.

Then I worked for a guy who had joined the French Foreign Legion (despite being French himself - he was in it for the “you WILL see action” guarantee) specifically because he wanted to kill ni**ers (obviously his word, not mine). That wasn’t plain sociopathy, as he actively went out of his way, accepting all sorts of lifestyle sacrifices, to be able to murder. He wasn’t insane in any other way - killing was just a hobby, the same way others play music or enjoy art photography. He was otherwise a very popular - even loved - man and considered a highly productive member of society. That in turn convinced me that people in general are just nucking futs.

[Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge]

@Ambivalid

I’m specifically referring to crack/meth/heroin dealers. And I only formed this opinion after getting to see their operations up close and personal. To be willing to take part in such a gruesome, sickening, twisted degradation of human life that takes place right in front of your eyes, simply in order to make a profit, takes a creature that is something less than fully human.
ETA: It would have been better for me to have said “Ive known drug dealers who I believed were truly evil”.

Are you ever going to tell us the story about your involvement with drugs? You have alluded to it on a few occasions. I am curious.

[Chimera]

Empathy, sympathy or giving people a pass on evil because of some alleged excuse such as mental illness or the abuse they suffered in the past is…

…wait for it…

participation in evil.

It is enabling, excusing, defending and giving permission for these people to continue to engage in evil acts by attempting to shield them from the consequences of their actions and the disapproval of others.

It is Conspiracy to Commit Evil.

[TruCelt]

I have experienced a few friends slipping into mental illness for various reasons. None of them changed their values, they jus began to act on them at a much different level. Some lost all motivation, another (extreme manic epidsode) sold her home and devoted ehrself to the cause of peace in our time. ->Good

I have known one person who not only took physical pleasure in harming his own child, but openly gloated about his ability t fool all the experts and make the protective parent look crazy to all concerned. ->True Evil

I have also known amoral people who took no joy in harming others, but left a path of destruction in everyone they touched. (Many of whom defended them to the last breath.) -> Evil

[Nava]

@ExcitedIdiot

You have a seriously low standard of evil. Drug dealers are selling something people want, it’s a victimless crime.

Until someone ODs. Now, the dealers I’ve known personally were either too dumb to be evil, hooked up themselves, or both, but that doesn’t make selling drugs victimless.

[Spice_Weasel]

@Chimera

It is Conspiracy to Commit Evil.

Given what I wrote, are you saying I’m evil because I dislike the unnecessary suffering of every person, regardless of what heinous acts they have committed? I don’t advocate liberating sociopaths and allowing them to do more harm, I certainly don’t excuse their actions, but I do think we have a responsibility to treat all humans with dignity, regardless of whether or not they ‘‘deserve’’ it. As I said before, all that’s standing between us and them is a railroad spike through the head. You may not see it that way but to call me ‘‘evil’’ for having too much empathy is a little farfetched.

[Seanette]

@ExcitedIdiot

You have a seriously low standard of evil. Drug dealers are selling something people want, it’s a victimless crime.

Really? Tell that to family members of druggies, especially their children who get abused and neglected when the drugs come before anything else (voice of experience here), or the adult relatives who get stolen from or sponged from to get money for drugs.

[MPB_in_Salt_Lake]

Are machetes standard equipment in orphanages (and supposedly other child-care facilities as well) now?

[Spice_Weasel]

@Seanette

Really? Tell that to family members of druggies, especially their children who get abused and neglected when the drugs come before anything else (voice of experience here), or the adult relatives who get stolen from or sponged from to get money for drugs.

Or the young people who OD on them and die. Or the children of the dead. Or the neighborhoods they ruin with violence and intimidation.

[Seanette]

@olivesmarch4th

Or the young people who OD on them and die. Or the children of the dead. Or the neighborhoods they ruin with violence and intimidation.

All good points as well.