[QUOTE=Anne Neville]
I saw a show (about "science of superhero powers- I was tired, OK?) in which some scientists had bred super-long-lived mice, by keeping the mice from breeding until late in life for many generations. If that’s the case for humans, those of us who wait to have our kids are not only likely to avoid poverty, we’re also breeding more long-lived humans 
[/QUOTE]
It appears to be exactly the opposite in human beings:
[QUOTE=Anne Neville]
gags
I am NEVER eating at your house.
I read pimple threads while eating, and enjoy it.
But the thought of eating food that has been in garbage cans… will somebody please come over here and hold my hair while I throw up?
You’ve made me happier with my life, though- now I’m glad that I don’t socialize much outside of work, so I’m not likely to meet any “freegans” or get invited to their homes.
[/QUOTE]
Holy shit! Let me add that I hope to god that sven disclosed to the party-goers where these “treats” came from, so they had the option of declining. Jesus Christ, even sven, are you TRYING to give yourself food-poisoning?
[QUOTE=MelCthefirst]
However, if you want children but don’t have them because you can’t afford them, a couple who keep having them and are on welfare have what I might want.
[/QUOTE]
I haven’t had my coffee yet, so please excuse my choppy writing style.
From reading this thread, I gather that I am probably the only person here who has actually been on welfare.
Please believe me when I say that it is not the people on welfare who have what you want.
In 2002, I had no choice other than to apply for welfare. It was the most demoralizing experience of my life.
For anyone who is going to pile on and say “You had a choice. You could have got yourself a JOB!” I’ll give a little background. I have worked and fully supported myself since I was in high school. I went to school during the day, left for work at 4 pm and got back to my room at the YWCA after midnite. Same thing with my first two years of college, except I lived in a craptastic apartment by then. I am no stranger to hard work.
In late 2000, I made the decision to take a year off of work after I had been diagnosed with cervical cancer. I had enough saved to take a year off, but it wasn’t simply for health reasons. It had been at least 15 years since I even took a vacation, and the three years before I made my decision, I had been working 10 - 12 hour days with a three hour (round trip) commute. I planned my finances carefully as working hard in my industry does not equal wealth, and enjoyed my time off. It was literally the first time in my life that I had time to myself.
About 10 months into my year off (my prognosis was excellent and my treatment had been successful), I started looking for a job. On September 10, 2001, the company I was most interested in made me an offer. On September 12th, they rescinded their offer. The industry I was working in literally shut down for months after 9/11.
I scrambled for months looking for any work I could find as my funds shrank. I went from eating three times a day to twice a day to once a day. I sold anything of value I had for pennies on the dollar just to keep the heat and phone on. I told myself it was ok because in a few months things will get better and I can always buy more stuff when things get back to normal. Hah. I borrowed to pay the rent. Moving wasn’t really an option since the rents around here had skyrocketed. The Red Cross was paying the rent for anyone displaced from Battery Park, and almost all places took advantage of that fact.
The day I had $11 left to my name and no way to pay the rent, I went down to the welfare office. I had not eaten for 3 days. It was winter, and my gas and electric had been disconnected many weeks earlier on the last cutoff day before winter. I was holding tight to my last $11 for transportation money.
Earlier in this thread someone said something about people on welfare really knowing the system better than social workers. I can tell you from first-hand experience that is because you are lied to without compunction at the welfare office. When I went in, I was told that I “was not allowed” to apply for food stamps because I “didn’t have money to pay the rent”. I was also told that “emergency food stamps don’t exist”. WTF??? After several hours and one argument with a supervisor later, I was back on the sidewalk.
I went back a few days later after doing some research about food stamp qualification. I found out they couldn’t prevent me from applying and that impending homelessness does not disqualify anyone and I argued until my application was accepted. The case worker told me it would take “about 3 months” for my application to be processed. The county would also assist with $600 for rent for up to one year. In some places, $600 a month will get you luxury digs. Here $600 a month won’t get you a park bench. Studios are $1,000. The obvious (at least to me) solution was a share. Nope, not allowed. Next obvious solution was stalling eviction by getting my landlord to take the $600 and run a bit behind on the balance, but not enough behind so that he would be motivated to evict me. Nope, not allowed.
While I was standing there bawling my eyes out and trying to come up with a solution other than suicide, another person sucking on the teat of the taxpayers approached me and gave me a heads up. They told me to go online to the FDA website and file a complaint. In less than 48 hours, I had a response from the FDA and the county office was under orders to to process my application on an emergent basis. I had my food stamps in a week.
Welfare isn’t fun. It also isn’t a life-long thing no matter what anyone says. There are limits on assistance, and it is capped at a year or two. Some things, like section 8, can go on forever … but that isn’t welfare. I was treated like absolute shit at the welfare office. I was beyond desperate when I showed up there, and by the time I was out of there I was suicidal. Its very hard to put into words just what the whole experience did to me. I had zero self-esteem left, and I was seriously depressed for about 3 years afterwards.
I got a whopping $62 a month in food stamps. I have always been frugal, but $62 a month isn’t enough to eat right (especially with no kitchen) in an urban area. My $600 housing assistance was enough for me to convince someone I was marginally aquainted with to let me live in their basement while they collected the $600. Not a basement apartment, but a basement with pipes over my head and the whole deal. I was allowed to use the bathroom off the kitchen, but was restricted to the basement the rest of the time. Their house was zoned as a 2 family, so it was approved. I also got $140 a month in general assistance. That paid for a phone and transportation to interviews and temp jobs. My temp job wages were taken out of my assistance. It wasn’t even really worth it financially to take whatever temp work I could get, but I did it in the hopes that I would get a real job out of it, which I eventually did.
I know people here love to poke holes in stories (and sometimes rightfully so), and rather than make this post into a 100,000 word extravaganza, I’ll sum up all my story holes at one. I was going online at the public library and using a yahoo e-mail address since my power was off. I was at the library several hours a day since it was winter and I had no heat. I had applied for HEAP funds to help pay my utility bills but they have a waiting list a mile long and only a small portion of the applicants in this area are helped each time they are funded. The state homelessness prevention program had run out of funds to help with rent. I was turned down for unemployment as I no longer qualified. Even though I had been ill, I was not disabled. I didn’t qualify for 9/11 funds. I don’t have any family to speak of. My friends had helped all that they could and none of them were doing well at that time either. God Bless the people and friends who did help me. I had even slept with an S.O.B. ex of mine in the hopes that he would assist me. No dice. I walked miles every day for weeks looking for a $600 apartment and got laughed at more than once. People who were aware of my situation tended to be rather glib and terribly uninformed in offering up supposed solutions. I had people tell me that this was all my fault and if I wasn’t so “lazy” I could get a job. The reality was that I was looking for any job I could get. Once I did several days of work for someone who refused to pay me. I found out later that this was a regular practice of his, and I was too beaten down to fight him. I was exhausted, desperate and more than a little afraid 24/7.
From having been there and done that, I honest to God do not see how anyone at all would sign up for this unless they truly had no other option. You have no idea just how badly you are treated, and it’s not limited to the welfare office.
I was in line at the supermarket once, and because that day was my birthday and I had plans to give myself an “it’s going to be ok, you can do it, nowhere to go but up” kind of pep talk, I bought myself a special treat for the princely sum of $4.99 with my food stamp card. The nosy bitch behind me had the nerve to announce “so thats where all my tax dollars go” and “I can’t afford to buy ____ but those welfare mama’s sure can!” loudly enough so that several people looked. My first instinct was to tackle her and bash her head against the supermarket floor until her skull fractured and the aisles ran red with her blood, but my shame was larger than my rage. It wasn’t shame at spending $4.99 for a special food treat on my birthday after 6 months of living hell, but the shame of being flat ass broke, and feeling impotent when it came to defending myself even though I truly had no obligation to defend or explain myself to her or anyone else for that matter.
What am I now? A changed person. I was always a kind person, but I truly do have more compassion now. I’m not making nearly as much money as I did before all this happened, but I have managed to get my savings into the low five figures. I have a lingering fear of spending any money at all in case my world falls apart again, to the point where my head says this is absurd but my heart is too full of fear to take a chance. I’m not talking about large purchases either. The sole on one of my sneakers has been flapping off for a year, yet I feel slight hysteria creeping in when I think about spending money on a new pair. Some days I walk five miles rather than spend $2 on a bus because I am so afraid that there will come another day when I don’t have $2 and I will need this $2 then. I sit on the floor rather than buy a used couch or even a cheap new one because I had to leave my furniture behind when I was evicted because I had no money to pay to move it. In the back of my mind I think it could happen again, so why spend even a dime on something if I am only going to lose it someday.
People who flap their gums about welfare and how everyone is livin’ oh so large on taxpayer dollars should try it for a year so they can truly realize that they don’t have even a marginal fucking clue what they were talking about. The truth is that it is brutal.
A very compelling and well written post, LurkerInNJ. I especially like the part where you listed all the things you could think of that people might raise later as they mine your story for questions and inconsistencies. Your descriptions of the indignities you suffered are lucid. Of course, some people mind indignities; other people have no shame. I’m glad you had the strength of character to endure what you did and come out the other side with a fiscal prudence that seems sometimes rare these days. My sympathies, but at the same time, my congratulations. And welcome to the Dope.
…it’d have been better had you knocked the nosy bitch in the grocery store out though. 
Seriously, though, that’s quite a story.
Actually I have been on the unemployment benefit a couple of times a long time ago - and wasn’t in as dire straights as you. However, this is not what I’m talking about at all - I think I’ve made it quite clear that I have no problem what so ever with people who find themselves in dire straights and needing assistance. It is those who accept government assistance as their right when they keep adding to their families and can’t afford them. And yes, if they are having kids, then it is something I want but can’t have because I can’t afford them.
Lurker thank you for sharing, that was very profound.
Personally, as an American I’m squeamish about large families anyway, given our consumption of natural resources and high rates of pollution.
I skimmed and didn’t see this, but maybe I missed it – has anyone pointed out that when you see someone with multiple children and a foodstamp card, you might be looking at a foster family? I believe that most states give them aid via foodstamp cards. Those people have my absolute respect and admiration.
Thanks people.
Cyberhwk, I agree. There were many days I wished I had, lol. I’m sure she still crows about how she really told me a thing or two on behalf of all taxpayers every chance she gets. Here’s to hoping she is in my proverbial shoes one day.
MelC, if I too had been on unemployment, I wouldn’t have been in such dire straights either. I wasn’t eligible. If I had been, I would have received approximately $405 a week in benefits. I could have lived on that quite easily while I searched for another job.
Also, my post wasn’t directed solely at you. I only used a quote from you as a starting point because it seemed to sum up a general attitude/misconception. Once you hit your lifetime limit of benefit years, you are done with welfare. You could crank out a set of twins every year and you will not get additional years of benefits. Once you use up your years, that’s it. When your benefits end, you will be stuck with however many children you have, affordable or not. Welfare is now, and has been for quite some time,* temporary * assistance.
Also, if your children are over 1 year old, you are required to work or go through a training program to teach you job skills along with a bunch of workshops. If you do not attend, your benefits are discontinued and you have to recertify. Contrary to what appears to be popular belief in this thread, birthin’ them babies one after another will not extend your benefit years. The ability to reproduce is not a ticket to an extended free welfare ride.
I don’t know about every state, but in New Jersey, you will not get an increase in your assistance benefits if you have another child during the first year you are on welfare.
fessie, I don’t think anyone has pointed that out. Many otherwise intelligent people in this thread have made irrational assumptions over and over again about people they either know or have seen when the simple fact is that their momentary glimpse of this other persons life is truly is not enough to come to any sort of conclusion. They aren’t privy to all the intimate details of the other persons life or finances.
For instance, those $14 gymboree hats could have been a gift from grandma, bought off a clearance rack or a hand-me-down. The income limits on WIC are extremely stringent, so I seriously doubt anyone that can afford a brand spankin’ new $25,000 car also has to rely on WIC for $23 worth of Cheerios and peanut butter every month. The numbers just don’t add up. I suppose if they didn’t have a mortgage or somehow managed to score free rent it could happen, but that would be a person who is a unique exception to the general rule. Someone who is a unique exception is not a fair example.
[QUOTE=Lust4Life]
It never ceases to amaze me the number of saints we have on these boards.
They resent the inequalities of income between sections of the populace and give the impression that if for example ,they won a couple of million on the lottery,they’d immediatly redistribute it amongst the poor .
It is so easy to be “holier then thou” about having lots of money when you haven’t actually got any yourself.
I’m not rich myself but dont resent those who are ,given the chance to be rich myself I’d jump at it and would feel no guilt whatsoever,and I suspect everyone else on this board would do the same ,including the “saints”
[/QUOTE]
I can still resent the fact that rich people aren’t paying their share, more than I resent those who receive assistance, can’t I?
[QUOTE=LurkerInNJ]
For instance, those $14 gymboree hats could have been a gift from grandma, bought off a clearance rack or a hand-me-down.
[/QUOTE]
It’s easier to buy “brand” clothes used than the cheap stuff — Once Upon a Child always turns their noses up at my kids’ Circo (Target brand), but I can re-sell the Gymbo clothes that I bought used to begin with.
LurkerinNJ I can certainly identify with you. I was once unemployed and watching my money dwindle. When I went to the state employment office, the person working there told me to “Go On Welfare.” I went back a dozen times and every time I was told to “Go On Welfare.” These are the people we pay with our tax dollars to find people work, and they are busy telling people to “Go On Welfare.”
My present job involves interacting with the welfare office, and I’ve been informed that the state wants to get people on welfare who shouldn’t be on welfare and will get off welfare quickly. It makes their records look better.
If there is a cap on welfare, why are some of our tenants on it for years?
LurkerInNJ, thanks for your story and your courage. If you want to stick around here permanently, send me an e-mail and I’ll pay your way in.
I have been on welfare, from early 1985 to the end of 1991. If it hadn’t been for AFDC (now TANF), food stamps, medical coupons, and Section 8 housing, my daughters and I would have been screwed. I went to community college using grants, student loans, and a work-study job. Got a 2-year degree, and turned the work-study job into a part-time job at the college. Got a full-time job beginning January 1992 and never looked back. I hated being on welfare.
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas]
If there is a cap on welfare, why are some of our tenants on it for years?
[/QUOTE]
Different states have slightly differing requirements. In Washington, there is a 5 year cap. However, Washington doesn’t punish children. In practice, it is usually people with no children that end up getting capped at 5 years, because somebody is always thinking of the children and making exceptions for folks who have them.
People who can afford children:
(just some examples, folks)
Brittney Spears
Madonna
Angelina Jolie
Rosie O’Donnal
Michael Jackson
I’m 49 and have 4 children - I’ve never used any type of public assistance, and if I’d waited until I could “afford” a baby - I’d be childless. Does the OP feel that the people on the list above are better qualified as parents than those with limited incomes?
[QUOTE=jali]
People who can afford children:
(just some examples, folks)
Brittney Spears
Madonna
Angelina Jolie
Rosie O’Donnal
Michael Jackson
I’m 49 and have 4 children - I’ve never used any type of public assistance, and if I’d waited until I could “afford” a baby - I’d be childless. Does the OP feel that the people on the list above are better qualified as parents than those with limited incomes?
[/QUOTE]
Since neither you nor Britney have applied for public assistance…no. Which is what all this thread is about. Except it isn’t, because it’s about public assistance, PLUS cranking out more kids while on public assistance.
-Joe
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas]
If there is a cap on welfare, why are some of our tenants on it for years?
[/QUOTE]
There are two types of welfare in New Jersey.
WorkFirst New Jersey General Assistance (WFNJ/GA) is for individuals or couples without dependent children. There is a two year lifetime cap on this assistance.
WorkFirst New Jersey Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (WFNJ/TANF) is for individuals or couples with dependent children. There is a five year lifetime cap on this assistance.
Both programs have work or training requirements.
Obviously I don’t have access to your tenant files, their applicable welfare file, nor do I have any personal knowledge of their individual situations.
If your tenants have been on welfare for less than two or five years (depending on which category they fell into), that would most likely be your answer.
Exemptions to the cap for “people who are permanently disabled, sole caretakers of a disabled dependent, chronically unemployable, over age 60, or victims of family violence” are available, but the exemption is secondary to whatever other assistance they are given. Perhaps some of your tenants fall into one of those categories.
I was personally told that my housing benefit would be paid for up to one year. I was on welfare under WFNJ/GA. I would rather have flung myself off a bridge than remain on welfare for even one year, so I didn’t bother to cross-check what I was told. I later found out that I had been eligible for up to two years, but I only needed varying degrees of assistance for several months, so it was a moot point.
I found out later that I had been eligible for a free NJ Transit bus pass for at least one month, but welfare never bothered to tell me about that benefit. They also never bothered to tell me that I was eligible for an emergency assistance check at the time I first applied for benefits. If you are absolutely destitute (as I was), you are eligible for a small immediate payment to tide you over until your emergency assistance is approved. It’s only $30 or so, but that too would have made a big difference to me at that time.
[QUOTE=Siege]
LurkerInNJ, thanks for your story and your courage. If you want to stick around here permanently, send me an e-mail and I’ll pay your way in.
[/QUOTE]
That’s very sweet of you and thank you for your offer, but I can more than afford a membership now. I just like to lurk.
The situation in my post was from several years ago. My reluctance to spend money on things that are not absolutely necessary is not because I don’t have any money … it’s because I have a bit of an irrational fear that my situation could repeat itself. It’s very unlikely, but I do harbor that fear.
Thank you for sharing your story.
[QUOTE=jali]
People who can afford children:
(just some examples, folks)
Brittney Spears
Madonna
Angelina Jolie
Rosie O’Donnal
Michael Jackson
I’m 49 and have 4 children - I’ve never used any type of public assistance, and if I’d waited until I could “afford” a baby - I’d be childless. Does the OP feel that the people on the list above are better qualified as parents than those with limited incomes?
[/QUOTE]
Ofcourse not (not that you or I have any idea really about these people’s parenting skills)- my OP was not about parenting skills or even that poor people shouldn’t have children (my family have been quite poor at times and my mum almost cancelled Christmas one year), it was about people in state housing receiving state handouts and adding to their already large families. I live in an area like this and see it on a daily basis.
After reading some other responses - I see that some states have a cap on welfare - in NZ you could live in a state funded house until you die, which maybe makes it a different situation here.
[QUOTE=LurkerInNJ]
Exemptions to the cap for “people who are permanently disabled, sole caretakers of a disabled dependent, chronically unemployable, over age 60, or victims of family violence” are available, but the exemption is secondary to whatever other assistance they are given. Perhaps some of your tenants fall into one of those categories.
[/QUOTE]
Folks,we have a winner. Just from having to deal with these people once or twice a month, I believe nobody would want them around on a day-to-day basis, and they are not the type of people who would work with other people.
I admire anyone who gets off the system, though I’ve seen it is much harder to stay on welfare. The hoops you have to jump through to get what little bit they will give you.