HDTV Power / Electronics Question

Hi all, had something I wanted to ask here, apologies for the long post.

One of my HDTVs is dying. It no longer turns on correctly right away. Instead of turning on the power, then the little light turning from red to blue, it usually turns blue, gets a bit dimmer, then shuts off again to red. If I want to use it, I have to sit there for a long time turning it on over and over. Sometimes the light will go blue, then no light at all, then blue, repeat several times, then back to red.
Eventually, you can see it ‘catch’, so to speak. The light turns blue, and instead of going dimmer then off, it gets brighter, and the TV turns on. It can take an hour of turning it off and on to get to this point. Once the TV is on, however, there are no problems whatsoever.

Reading around on the internet, I have seen all sorts of answers relating to capacitors or other things I do not understand. Most say the TV is on it’s way out and needs to be replaced or repaired. And again, most say that if you do not know how to repair these yourself, you are better off replacing the TV if it was cheap enough (in this case, around $250, 5 years ago) because a repair is going to cost more than that usually. So, all right, I need to replace it.

This is the 2nd time I have had a TV do this to me in 6 years. The first was a lousy unknown brand and only lasted 1 year (literally days past the warranty), so it was pretty expected. This one isn’t great either, but was a better brand and had some good reviews. Still, I got 5 years out of it for that price, so that isn’t terrible.

I have a couple of questions:

  1. Can anyone with electronics knowledge please attempt to help me understand what is happening when the TV is doing this? How is the power being handled, what might potentially be the problem, etc. I am really just curious about what is going on, and have no knowledge of electronics. It is all right to speak to me like I am a child. :stuck_out_tongue:

  2. Am I a TV murderer? Is there something I am doing or not doing that might be causing this kind of death? Grounded outlet, power strip, near a window causing temperature fluctuations, anything? Maybe I should water it less than 3 times a day? Or more? :wink:

Currently looking for a replacement, so I am leaving the TV on so I don’t have to fight it when I want to use it. Hopefully it won’t blow up on me.
Thank you in advance for any and all responses, they are much appreciated.

A capacitor is a small energy storage device. They come in different types. The simplest capacitor is literally just two metal plates next to each other that don’t touch. When you apply electricity to the plates, energy is stored in an electric field. When you remove the electricity, the electric field collapses and the energy that was stored gets converted back into electricity.

Capacitors have a bizillion and one uses in electronics. One of the uses is in power rectifying and filtering, which is basically, converting the AC that comes from the wall into DC that the TV can use. AC is constantly changing like a sine wave, so it goes all the way up to its peak value and back down to zero, going through a complete sine wave cycle 60 times each second in the U.S. (50 times a second in many other parts of the world). The capacitor smooths things out so that the power supply still puts out a constant voltage even when the AC sine wave is at the zero part of its cycle.

An actual TV power supply is a bit more complicated than that, but that’s the basic principle involved.

When people online are talking about capacitors going bad, they are usually referring to a specific type of capacitor that is often used in power supplies. This is called an electrolytic capacitor, and instead of being just two metal plates, it’s either one or two pieces of metal foil that is coiled up. The capacitor also has a bunch of goo slathered onto the foil to make it more efficient. That goo is called the electrolyte, which is why they are called electrolytic capacitors. If you look on a circuit board, these are the things that look like little tin cans. Inside the metal case (which is a lot like a tin can) you’ve got the foil and goo all rolled up like a fruit roll-up.

What happens with these capacitors is that sometimes the manufacturer screws up and doesn’t mix the goo up properly. There have been some famous cases where this was a result of one manufacturer stealing the goo recipe from another manufacturer, only they stole the wrong copy and the copy that they stole didn’t work very well. What usually happens is that the goo basically dries out and fails. Then the capacitor doesn’t do its job, the varying voltages don’t get smoothed out, and the TV circuitry doesn’t work properly because it’s not getting constant power any more. Sometimes when the little capacitors fail, they actually blow the entire top off of the tin can. If you look at the circuit board and see little tin cans that are swelled up and leaking goo, those capacitors have failed. Sometimes the damage isn’t so obvious, though.

Replacing the failed capacitors requires a lot of soldering skill on a modern circuit board, and when it’s not particularly obvious which capacitors have failed, the technician will often just take the “shotgun” approach and will change out a whole bunch of them, since it’s faster to do that (and hence, costs less in labor) than trying to troubleshoot and test each capacitor.

Technician time is very pricey, so in most cases you are better off just replacing the TV.

As for you being an evil murderer, it’s actually possible. You mention it being near a window that causes temperature fluctuations. Minor temperature fluctuations are probably no big deal, but if the temperature fluctuates significantly, this causes everything in the TV to heat up and cool down. Since the different components are made out of different materials, this causes thermal stresses due to different materials expanding and contracting at different rates. If the TV has any weak solder joints, the thermal expansion and contraction will cause them to open up and fail over time. So it might not be the capacitors that are failing, but might be something like this instead.

Heat also kills. A general rule of thumb is that every 10 degrees C above room temperature will cut the expected life of the device in half. So if the sun is baking it for several hours per day, not only will you have the thermal stresses causing things to break, but you’ll also have overheating that will be shortening the life of components. Heat actually makes the capacitor problem worse, as excessive heat causes the electrolyte to dry out and fail.

Another problem you might be having is bad power. If you are close to a substation, your voltage might be a bit on the high side. You might also be experiencing large power spikes during the day, as things are switched on and off of the power line. In some areas, lighting is common and tends to travel fairly long distances along power lines and through the ground, often shortening the life of devices even though the lightning never hits very close to your home. There’s all kinds of test equipment that you can hook up to your power line to monitor for these types of problems, but most of it isn’t available to the home user unless the home user happens to be an electrical engineer like me. The one thing that the home user does have available is a cheap voltmeter, which can be had for about 20 bucks. With this, you can at least see if the voltage at your house is higher than usual. The power company usually specifies 120 volts plus or minus 10 percent (maybe 5 percent in some areas, which is better). That would put the acceptable voltage range anywhere from 108 to 132 volts. If it’s on the high side of that, you might find the higher voltage causing things to wear out a little faster. You’ll notice it in light bulbs and other things too. Since you don’t mention any problems with other electronic devices, I’m guessing you probably don’t have this type of problem.

Get the TV away from the window if you can, keep the temperature constant and cooler is generally better.

Power strips aren’t necessarily surge protectors. A power strip can be just a power strip with no protection at all in it. There are several things to look for in power strips. One is the joule rating, and with this, the higher the better. A cheap one might be a couple hundred joules. A really good power strip might be 800 joules or higher. A whole house surge protector (which can be installed by an electrician) might be able to handle several thousand joules, which is definitely better.

Another thing is the max fault current that the strip can handle. Again, the higher the better. A cheapie might be a few thousand amps, where a more expensive one might be several tens of thousands of amps.

You also want to look at what is called the clamping voltage. Your power is supposed to be 120 volts. The surge protector will clamp the voltage at a particular level, which means that it won’t let the voltage exceed that level. Lower is better. A surge protector that clamps at 200 volts gives you better protection than one that clamps at 300 volts.

Ideally, you also want to get a surge protector that tells you when it fails. The better surge protectors will have a light or LED that indicates whether they are working or not. If a surge comes in, it will usually blow the protection in the surge protector (often some metal oxide varistors, which clamp down on the incoming surge and often get destroyed in the process). If the surge protector doesn’t have an indicator light, you don’t know if your surge protection was blown by an incoming surge or not, so get one that has a light.

Some years ago, many electrolytic capacitors were made with counterfeit electrolyte. These manufacturing defects appeared as failures years later. Therefore most, who also do not know electronics, immediately blame today only what they have heard - electrolytic capacitors.

Most failures are due to manufacturing defects. All household appliances should be just find even in a 100 degree F room. How many other appliances are also failing? Why would heat or ‘dirty’ electricity only harm a TV?

Chances are highest that you had two TVs with manufacturing defects.

Meanwhile, learn how to avert future damage. For example, that TV cable must be properly earthed before entering the building. A ‘whole house’ protector is the proven protection when properly earthed in the breaker box or behind a meter. These are for anomalies that might cause any or every appliance damage; that occur maybe once every seven years. So yes, expand an inspection to include what must exist so that robust protection inside every appliance is not overwhelmed.

Since you did not specifically define what inside each TV failed, then nobody can say anything more than wild speculation. One reason to have it repaired is to have a fact. Only then can a definitive reason for failure be suggested. It could be a power supply. It could be something else that has failed and is drawing too much power. It could be anything - an electrolytic capacitor is only one of hundreds of reasons.

How many other appliances have failed (GFCI, dimmer switches, clocks, computers, radios, furnace)? If not others, then more likely are two TVs purchased with manufacturing defects. A TV should be functional for decades.

The bad caps problem is ongoing. Manufacturers no longer seem to care about fixing the problem. (Some motherboard makers now avoid electrolytics because of this.)

I also have a TV that seems to be in the early stages of the bad cap problem.

I have fixed several devices by replacing caps in the power supplies, so I might do that here.

I open it up, very carefully take note of the specs of the existing caps in the power supply, look up the parts, order the equivalent. Note that some caps are special in some way. So farads, voltage and temp aren’t enough.

I also replace all the caps. You can’t tell which are bad just by looking in every case. The caps are cheap and once you have the board out, may as well do the whole job.

Some popular TVs have cap kids sold on places like Amazon.

I’ve been repairing electronics for a very long time. I don’t recommend this unless you can recognize what-is-what inside a device and have solid soldering skills.

In case anyone is curious of what bad electrolytic caps look like and how they are replaced, here’s a good youtube video showing such a repair:

Thank you all very much for your responses, it was really interesting reading them. Especially your in-depth asnwer there, engineer_comp_geek, that was very thorough and helped me understand a bit.

I am definitely aware that my question was pretty vague, and such. However, I wasn’t really looking for a specific diagnosis of the problem, I get that it’s dying… and one way or another, I believe it needs to be replaced any way. It really isn’t a special HDTV. It was a very good deal at like $250 dollars (like 120 off) about 5 years ago, so I can get something better for the same price today anyway.
I was only really curious about the process the TV goes through when it’s being powered on, how the power is handled (in a general way), and what might cause it to only work one out of a large number of times I attempt to turn it on. Just thought it would be neat to know how it works, and engineer_comp_geek really helped to shed some light there.

The part I was more concerned about, I guess, was whether or not my behavior could potentially be causing the issues. I must admit that I failed to include one vital piece of information, though, and I apologize. The 2 HDTVs that failed were at different houses. I moved, and replaced my HDTV at nearly the same time. Since both failed in the same way, and it was at different locations, it occured to me that it might be something I am doing or not doing, which is why I asked.

In this location, electronics don’t seem to fail much on the whole. I had a PC power supply go bad, but there were too many variables to make a call on that one.

I have always had my TVs positioned somewhat near to my windows, though, and I very often keep my windows open a bit, even in the colder months, because I much prefer the cold. The temp can vary here, though, so who knows. I will look into rearranging so that my next TV (whatever it turns out to be) will be farther away.

Thank you again. :slight_smile:

I work on military electronics, and I have never seen an aluminum electrolytic cap go bad. Want to know why? Because military hardware doesn’t use them! This is because they’re too damn unreliable, especially at high temperatures.

When a circuit designer for military hardware needs a cap with lots of microfarads, they’ll usually use a wet or dry tantalum that is hermetically sealed. They work well but are very expensive. We’re talking $50 to $100 each.