Heads of state to Bin Ladin re:offer.Drop Dead. (has the terrorist won?)

I will try to frame this question with (unaccustomed) precision.

oops. that one got away prematurely.

1.'sama offers truce

  1. Heads of State: “We piss on your truce”

    Note that: They all feel obliged to respond

The metacommunication: If they said yes, 'sama could deliver.

In other words, if a tape issued in two weeks where 'sama said, “Yo, terrorist brothers. Poland is cool, chill out on the poles.”, and the Poles pull out of Iraq.would we expect to see the poles spared from any terror while the “truce” was in effect.

If we answer “yes” (and I myself do) have we not just made 'sama into Saladin, by acclamation, as it were?

And is there any way to escape this dilemma, post Madrid? Are we not “damned if we respond, damned if we don’t?”

Nah. Keep in mind that his message was to the people of Europe and actually contained a slap at the leaders of the countries (including those countries that opposed the invasion of Iraq, of course). (one version of the transcript here) So the leaders were each just replying on behalf of their citizens – essentially an official FU to go along with the non-official FU which is a lot harder to put together.

Just a little old-fashioned leadership here, IMO. A non-event.

I realize that the documents involved won’t be in the next “collected documents illustrating the diplomacy of the twenty first century”, but just getting a “fu” from Tony Blair would be a promotion for me, and most people, I guess…

There is however, a question as to whether the government of the many European countries are answering on behalf of the people, particularly those opposed to the Iraqi invasion.

There is? I have yet to see a single person saying that more than a smattering of Europeans would consider making a deal with Bob Laden a good idea. Left or right, for or against Iraq war. I think it’s safe to assume the leaders speak on behalf of the people when they wave away Osama’s “offer” as absurd.

Note also that Bin Laden did not just require withdrawal from Iraq, but stopping all attacks on Moslems. I suppose that would require withdrawal from Afghanistan, severing all ties with Israel, and whatever he might come on, etc. as well handing over Iraq to the terrorists.

I don’t think Bin Laden speaks for every terrorist in the world. So it’s possible Europe knows he is just blowing smoke.

Got to agree with Rune again. Bing Laden’s offer isn’t taken seriously at all, by the people of Europe. The people of Europe think Bubba Laden is just a bag of horse-manure. Maybe if Bart Laden had offered a truce to the whole world, the people of Europe might have thought differently.

this helps clarify what I was groping for.

Doesn’t the rousing “stuff your truce where the sun don’t shine” bespeak an implicit assumption (concession?) that if a deal were cut, 'sama could deliver.

I think I should have titled this thread alternately:

Would the various islamist terrorists who appear to be inspired by/associated with/emulating/(competing with??) fall into line?

Who, if anyone, IS competing with 'sama?

Is there “factionalism” mongst the blackrobed brotherhood?

Furthermore, would 'sama ordinarily have any clout with shia muslims.

Off the top of my head, he would need to impose a putative truce on Hamas, Hesbollah, Jamiat Islamya, The Chechens, Abu Sayyaf, Hanbali’s people, the Algerians, and whoever else I’ve forgotten or never heard of .

Of course, only Al Q. and its emulators are trying to project power(as the navy likes to say) into western countries, so I guess he wouldn’t
need to worry about controlling Hezbollah, who are shia with persian affiliations.

I suppose before too long 'sama would be beefing the French for the scarf ban, and I know he has something to say about Janet Jackson’s Boob.

Anyway, what I found somewhat interesting was the more or less universal manifestation of an unspoken assumption that if he wanted to, 'sama could restrain a motley melange of miscontents (eat your heart out, safire…)

(

without doubt, afghanistan goes back to Mullah Omar.
We are out of indonesia, phillipines, pakistan.
India is in deep shit vis-a-vis Kashmir.

query:what about China and the Uighars?

And, of course, there’s Nigeria.

And Chechnya.

It might be more difficult to organize the western countries to produce THEIR end of a “truce”, than for 'sama to ride herd on his people.

Benny Laden is not a stupid guy. He gave The West a loaded offer.

If we accept the offer, we have capitulated to a terrorist and thereby given viability to this approach to social reform. Terrorism can continue pretty much unabated since Big Larder doesn’t command “all the terrorists” in quite the same way the Duhbyah employs “all the US Marines.”
If we **decline **the offer our leaders convey a message to us and the rest of the world that we have rejected peace as an alternative. Whether or not that proposition holds water is irrelevant, Ben Leper is making an overture similar to Bush’s “You’re with us or against us” spiel–it’s designed to force a one-or-the-other response which may or may not be appropriate.
If we **acknowledge ** the offer at all we unofficially recognize Yomamma as a legitemate political entity (which is why even a FU from Blair to any of us regular foax is a promotion).

The best thing that could have been done with Bin Laden’s offer would have been to ignore it completely. He knew that. Had he written his proposal and forwarded it to the European heads of state, he would only have gotten a response from maybe one nation.

The problem with not responding to Bin Laden’s offer would have been that not all other Western nations might chose to understand that silence the way it was intended. Wouldn’t a lot of commentators of the US Right have spun it as “These cowardly $insert_nation_here have tacitly taken up Bin Laden’s offer”?

Like I said, damned either way.

When you find yourself in one of those situations, it usually is because you have been put there by someone who is smarter than you are.

If this is about 'sama v. (in)curious george, …

Well, I don’t have to draw you a picture, do I?

The tape was a brilliant bit of psy-ops ju-jitsu.

That said, it could only have had its effects in an atmosphere where the custodians of the governments addressed are lying to and acting contrary to the interests of their citizens

originally posted by: alaricthegoth

hehehe. You’re whooshing me, right? The tape was slightly less amusing than the Teletubbies.

Not in the least. I do think it bespeaks the assumption that you’d have to be nuts to trust anything Osama bin Laden promises and that on principle, Europe is not willing to bargain with him either way.