Wow, a lot of would-be draft dodgers on the board. Of course, if you did run to Canada, what would probably happen is that G.W.'s secret world domination plan involves invading Canada first. 
I’d go, complaining all the way. The thing is, if it’s a draft, some people are gonna go. Somebody’s kid is gonna get killed. I just figure, what makes me so special that I can run while they lose their lives? It’s not a question of me supporting the war, because I surely don’t believe that war is being fought to preserve any of my rights, or my safety. I just doubt that, if there was a draft, the only people getting shipped out would be Bush supporters. If somebody’s gonna die in a damn fool war, and it’s my turn, I’ll go.
Of course we need conscription. How else are we going to stop those Armours and artillery if we dont have riflemen to defend our cities? 
To stop Armour and Artillery, you are going to want at least infantry, if not mechanized infantry.
Though I too think a draft would be the completely wrong thing to do in this situation (and totally unnecessary to boot), there are some angles on the draft that potential draft-dodgers should consider.
Though the Canadian population might swell, and our jails start overflowing (even more so), there are some people whose conviction against this war or the idea of a draft is not as set in stone as yours. Should you decide to run or burn your draft card and refuse to go, someone will go in your place. That could be your neighbor, your cousin, your neice or nephew, your sibling, future or current SO, etc. Would you, or could you, walk up to a random stranger on the street and say “Excuse me, I’ve chosen to dodge my duty as an American citizen to go fight in some “damn fool war” (as Cecil puts it). I’ve chosen you to take my place. Thank you and have a good day.” That, more or less, is what happens if/when you choose not to serve as your government compels.
This scenario became all to real to me (not the draft, but taking someone’s place) at the outset of Desert Shield. Althought I was a general’s driver at a garrison post (meaning no wartime deployable units), the call came down to our commander for soldiers with a certain skill set. There were about 5 of us that qualified, myself included. They decided to go with the lowest ranking schlub, an E3 and an acquaintance of mine. He was married with 5 kids, I was single. I decided to go in his place, and two others volunteered as well. I knew his wife and had played with his kids; it was important to me that so many close to him should not have to grieve should he not come back. So I went, and I’m glad I did. It was a once in a lifetime experience. Though I must admit that I never agreed with the principles behind the war, I felt quite at home with my military brothers and sisters all trained to fight beside me.
If the draft ever became a reality (and I’m pretty sure it won’t), I won’t blame those that dodge it. Those are your convictions, and you have the right to have them. But I would appreciate that you thank any veterans you subsequently come across for fighting in your place.
Citizenship has it’s price.
I wonder how the Canadians view American draft dodgers. Who would want to hire a coward? Maybe you could take them on as a waiter or janitor, but I doubt you’d want to have them handling anything of value if they are likely to bail as soon as they’re required to do something they don’t want to do.
I’m 34, so I’m ineligible in any case.
But that aside, while I might briefly entertain the notion of dodging service, particularly given how spectacularly wrongheaded the current administration is proving itself to be, I can see some political value in spending time in uniform in order to have a basis to criticize said administration. Diogenes the Cynic gets a lot of flak for his Bush bashing and anti-war screeds, but his past military service gives him a certain credibility on the issue that even his opponents must grudgingly admit.
It’s a tempting proposition. On the other hand, my anti-authoritarian streak would no doubt cause me to be assigned to the highest-casualty cannon-fodder grinder available, just to get rid of me, so I’d be unlikely to survive long enough to enjoy my moral superiority.
I suspect they’d just take one look at our President and fully understand.
Right, because “risking your life in a war you don’t believe in because somebody else pulled your name out of a hat and you had no say in the matter” is EXACTLY the same as, say, being asked to work late hours on Friday because there’s an important project that needs to be finished up.
I know three people who came to Canada in order to avoid going to Vietnam and are now naturalized Canucks. They have all been warmly received.
One of them was my boss for a few years.
Well, if I had a draft dodger come to me for a job they would have the following counting against them:
- This person could not abide by the laws of their country; why should I assume that they will abide by the policies of my company?
- I cannot have this person interacting with American clients since a good portion of those people will be ex-military and I’m not willing to risk any contracts for this person. Not to mention that I wouldn’t be able to send them to New York for a meeting.
- The draft dodger will be young and so probably won’t have much real world experience and only a basic education.
- They will protest being drafted and when faced with jail time they will slip across the border. I would think that their “conviction” is more a matter of convenience than principle.
- They are willing to let others either go to war for them or go to prison for them. I would not want this person working in a team environment since I think they would be happy to sacrifice others to avoid any inconvenience to themselves.
I wouldn’t see any reason to hire this person. Why not just snatch up some Canadian kid?
IIRC, during WWII some people above the age of 40 were drafted.
Of course the situation would have to become truly desperate for that to happen again.
I am personally acquainted with two people who dodged the draft to come to Canada: one is now a psychiatrist and the other is a professor, IIRC. I think that most Canadians would have the same respect for draft dodgers as they have for other political refugees.
As a side note, during the Viêt Nam era, my father knew a young draft dodger who came to Canada. He put the boy up at his house in Hamilton. One day the boy’s brother drove up to Hamilton, kidnapped the boy by force, and brought him back down to the U.S. The boy was immediately drafted and the brother was never charged with anything.
So wait. Explain to me why it’s ok for you liberal Dopers to dodge the draft but not Republican politicians. I won’t even mention such great war heros like Bill Clinton.
Uhh, maybe because we’re not the ones deploying 140,000 military personnel across the globe away from their families for many months at great expense to the taxpayers to conduct a war begun under false or at least dubious pretenses?
Because we’re not the ones who screeched at then-President Clinton, “we’re not the world’s police force, we shouldn’t be deploying our armed forces with the UN in cases where our national security isn’t clearly threatened!”, and then cheered President Bush as he took it upon himself to enforce UN resolutions in the style of the world’s police force, while at the same time ignoring the UN’s position that an invasion wasn’t yet necessary?
Politicians of all stripes contain at least some hypocrisy as a part of their makeup. Hey, I accept that. But it boggles my mind how sheep-like most conservatives have become in the face of some of the most rank hypocrisy ever seen from the Oval Office, in which a chickenhawk administration has managed to get over 250 American soldiers killed in this little “excursion”. Remember, this administration is led by a man who used his connections in the sixties to get a position defending Texas from the Viet Cong, then earlier this year goaded Iraqi guerrilla resistance with “Bring 'em on”. (Since he made that statement from the safety of the Oval Office on July 2, according to Salon.com, 173 American soldiers have died in Iraq.)
It seems to me that you might be unable to comprehend the nuances of the objections posted here by those opposed to a draft. I object to commencing a draft whose purpose is to reinforce the Iraqi occupation, which we have always found unjustified and pointless. But I think I speak for many when I say that if my country were actually threatened or attacked, and I could see clearly that that were the case, yes, I’d serve, even though I have an 18-month-old son and a mortgage. (In fact, I regret not having enlisted when I was an 18-year-old, to have spent even just two years in the military would have provided me an invaluable experience.)
I don’t see the point in dying for a democracy where people don’t call ‘Horseshit’ on their elected leaders on a daily basis.
It’s interesting to me that the people who quote Mill never quote the most important part.
“But war, in a good cause, is not the greatest evil which a nation can suffer. War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice–is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature, who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”
Bolding mine. You see? “In a good cause.” Making rich white guys richer is NOT a good cause, IMHO.
Cite here: www.blackmask.com/books75c/conammill.htm
Nah, fight armor with armor. And lots of air support–fighters are better than bombers for this since you can have multiple attacks in one turn. Plus, you now have the ability to scramble if needed.
Nah, fight armor with armor. And lots of air support–fighters are better than bombers for this since you can have multiple attacks in one turn. Plus, you now have the ability to scramble if needed.
Hmmm. AQA (sorry about the abbreviation, but…), perhaps I should explain this a little further.
For one thing, pacifism does not mean I would never act in my own defense. One old chestnut I hear all the time is “what if your mother was being raped right in front of you and you had a gun,” and variations on that theme. This and other scenarios like it ignore the fact that actual war and outright violence is completely different from a personal and familial defense situation. If I were in a situation where it was me and the guy with the gun, and there was no question that it was him or me, I’d do my damndest to keep myself alive. If that means he dies, that sucks in an enormous way - I’d much rather disable, if I must - but I’d frankly rather him than me. But it is only acceptable when things come down to the wire like that.
For another thing, I’m curious about this assertion (which I hear all the time) that the “free world” and in particular the US is kept free by those who are willing to “get their hands bloody.” I can think of precious few instances since World War II when any Western or First-World nation has had to fight to maintain its liberty. The United States has not fought one SINGLE war in its direct defense since at least 1814, and more probably since 1783. World War II is a little different, and I cannot say how I would have felt about it at the time. We do fight an awful lot to protect our “interests” in other regions of the world, and ostensibly to protect the freedom of others (though our selectivity in where we choose to do so is rather telling).
Much of the third world and the Middle East is just a mess in any case - injecting more violence into the mix isn’t helpful. How much good has the constant warfare in Israel done either the Israelis or Palestinians?
I don’t believe in any nonsense like a Utopian society where violence never occurs. A standing police force is necessary, and will always be necessary. I would like to see some more use of non-lethal methods of bring down a badguy, but I acknowledge that there is a serious dearth of effective techniques to do this. I do believe, however, that warfare cannot be stopped with more warfare. True peace (what MLK called the presence of justice as well as the absence of tension) cannot be kept by a loaded gun.
Sorry, this was long.
I might move to Canada regardless of the draft :D.
Mostly, it depends on why we’re fighting. If its to protect my family, and I would do it anyway, then definetly.
Under other circumstances, then I might serve, but I won’t kill, maybe just serve as a cook.