Can I, like, be a Green Beret or some shit like that? That’d be kick ass! Bang! Bang bang bang!
I doubt very seriously that anyone is going to be ramping up the draft anytime soon, and there is no chance that it will be ramped up for the rebuilding in Iraq. There are plenty of troops in reserve right now that can be called in if needed, and in truth the administration is trying to find ways to decrease the force in Iraq. It seems more likely that the draft board appointments are being made 1) as a boon to the faction of the Republican party that smiles every time they hear the word “military;” 2) to make sure we’re prepared if something along the lines of WWII does happen; 3) to fill out the political spoils of office by rewarding supporters with cushy draft board jobs.
Having said that, all of you men who said that you would dodge the draft should be ashamed. As said by John Stuart Mill:
I, for one, would be proud to serve and know that my life stands for something more than preserving my own ability to draw one more breath.
Repeat after me…
“Good day, eh?”
and
“Bonjour, eh?”
I’m Canadian but I’d opt out of the draft even if I qualified. I’m rather fond of independent thought and I’m not sold on the idea of throwing more bodies at the present problem in Iraq. Last I heard, that sort of opinion wouldn’t make me very popular in ‘B’ company.
It has nothing to do with self-preservation and everything to do with believing in a cause. And I don’t want to be told what cause is worth me dieing for. If I ever thought that my freedom was being threatened, I’d sign up and lead the charge.
Age Quod Agis, as for “cushy” jobs, I may be wrong but IIRC the “Draft Board” is not a full time “job” but more of something like serving on a School Board or Town Council, and at best you get per-diems for the days you do hold court, so to speak.
As for the relative size of our current military, back in the late 80s/early 90s we had a numerically larger force, with more Army divisions, Fighter wings, and warships deployed, and it was just as much a volunteer force (and before anyone jumps on BC, already during the Bush-I admin in 91 and 92 you had units being slated for demob, individuals for RIF and bases for shutdown, as part of the “peace dividend” because there was no more USSR to worry about). So it’s not as if you can’t have a larger force of volunteers.
Yes I would.
Sorry, but I don’t buy the old “dulce et decorum est” lie. And I didn’t say I wouldn’t serve at all, I said I didn’t plan to die in George Bush’s war.
Sorry, but I don’t buy the old “dulce et decorum est” lie. And I didn’t say I wouldn’t serve at all, I said I didn’t plan to die in George Bush’s war. If it was something worth fighting for, I’d consider it.
If they’re French-speaking, yes.
I have doubts about equivocating your answer with “I’d consider it,” which seems to me to say that there aren’t any realistic situations when you’d actually do it. And as I tried to explain the situation, there is no chance that the draft will be instituted to rebuild Iraq. However, if you’d serve when needed, then my comments weren’t directed towards you.
Thanks for the clarification. However, I still don’t think the reason for restocking the draft boards is to reinstitute the draft. More likely it’s one of the other reasons I’ve mentioned (or another reason that I’ve left out altogether).
I hear Toronto is really nice this time of year.
There is no way in HELL I would serve in a war, short of an invasion of our shores (and not in some halfassed “planes into buildings” sense, either. I need foreign flagged amphibious vessels and at least 1,000 bad guys). And if we’re talking about being drafted into the Iraq war, you’ve got to be kidding me. I would consider anyone who DID go to war in that draft to be nothing short of a traitor to the true basis and ideals of the US.
Let me modify my last statement. I’d have served in WWII. Although, I guess that was an invasion of our shores, too…But I would have at least been happily drafted, and possibly would have volunteered (Although, I have a feeling they wouldn’t have taken me) to serve in WWII if it was only the European theater.
I couldn’t serve again if I wanted to, as I am the proud owner of a document written and signed by a Major somebody or other that declares that I am (mentally) unfit for military service, as I am incapable of following orders given by morons like him.
Strange. That’s what I told them BEFORE they drafted me.
Vietnam. Now there was a worthwhile war – it stopped the spread of communism and made the world safe for Saddam.
Absolutely not.
You might this amusing, Priam: I AM a Quaker. I do not believe that, in the long run, violence can do any good. Blood, after all, calls out for more blood.
For this stance I get lots of crap, like the John Stuart Mill quote. It comes from a ridiculous assumption that I have nothing to fight for and am opposed to war and the draft out of self-preservation. Nonsense. No, I do not want to die, but nor am I unwilling to stand and fight for what I believe in, at risk of my life is necessary. But for me, fighting does not involve carrying a rifle. There are causes greater than myself, worth fighting for - like a future in which war may hopefully be regarded as outdated as cannibalism is today.
I’m trying to keep my knees from flying out of joint here. Are you saying that those soldiers that are currently serving in Iraq are “nothing short of traitor[s] to the true basis and ideals of the US”? If not, how do you differentiate the soldiers who volunteered to be in the armed services before or during the war and were sent to Iraq, from those that in our hypothetical would be drafted and sent to Iraq?
Grelby, I have no problem with your religious conviction. In fact, I have a lot of respect for it, and for your willingness to take crap for your beliefs. I believe that your motives stem strictly from a desire to make the world a better place. But my stance doesn’t come from a belief that pacifism is related solely to a desire for self-preservation. It can also arise from unrealistic beliefs in the power of peace and/or love. In fact, I feel fairly certain that there are people that would lay down and let themselves and their families be killed before raising their own hands to commit violence, but I fail to see how that will actually make the world a better place.
People throughout the free world are kept so, not by the peaceful entreaties of the pacifists or those carrying signs with pithy sayings, but by the willingness of others to get blood on their hands. Around here, we have the luxury of living without violence not because people aspire to be better humans, but because police officers are willing to wrestle criminals to the ground and step in front of bullets for us, and because jail wardens are willing to use force to keep criminals behind bars, and because soldiers are standing at our borders with guns. In a draft, people would be free to run and hide in another country rather than fight for this one as long as there are others guarding that country with the same violence that they’re fleeing.
I respect and admire your beliefs. I just don’t share them.
Why only the European theater? Do you realize that Japan is the one that bombed Pearl Harbor? Is the sightseeing better in Europe? Or is Hawaii far enough away from your house that you don’t care if it’s bombed?
Where is this utopia? I’d like to give that whole violence-free living thing a shot.
In Texas, of course!
Of course, I’m kidding, and of course you’ve caught me overstating my case. Thanks for calling me on it.
I should have said that we have the luxury of attempting to live without violence. As long as there are people with the freedom and ability to cause violence upon us and there aren’t any people around willing to protect us, the burden of protecting ourselves and those we love falls to us. I don’t doubt that Grelby has lived a pacifist lifestyle in keeping with his religious convictions. However, many of us have not had the luxury, or the conviction, to do so.
I wonder if they’d even get noticed. I get the feeling a keg would appear and everyone would shout “PAR-TAY!”
One thing to consider is that the VAST majority of military personnel are not combat soldiers. Something on the order of only 1 in 7 of our military personnel are actually combat troops(tooth to tail ratio).
There are lots of jobs as truck drivers, cargo handlers, mechanics, cable layers, etc… that don’t usually require the specialized training that say, helicopter pilots or tank gunners need.
I’m guessing that would be the reason for a draft- fill up the support services shortfalls and continue to rely on volunteers for the actual combat troops.
Simple: They volunteered, to defend our country, and for that, I salute them. It’s not their fault that their president shipped them off to some hellhole to die for no reason. They have to follow the orders that they’re given, although I wouldn’t fault anyone who refused to follow an order to go to Iraq.
However, to capitulate to a draft, rather than fighting against it, or refusing to be taken in by it, is completely different. America is a country of freedom, not a country that should be forcing it’s children to go off and die. Certainly not to go off and die to fulfill a president’s mission to win oil under the guise of a war against terror.
As for the european vs. pacific theater, I’m saying I would have maybe volunteered, definetly been fine with a draft, even if the Japanese weren’t involved, because the Nazis presented a clear and present danger to the world.