Not everyone who doesn’t have insurance goes forth to the ER, runs up a bill and doesn’t pay it. Indeed, I have no idea how they manage to get treatment to begin with since you can’t get past the intake nurse without insurance. Except of course for real emergencies. But how common is that? I’ve never seen any numbers, just the boogey man of “all these uninsured people not paying bills that we all have to pay for”. I don’t see that we have ever been told that those folks are significantly more expensive than creating a UHC and paying to insure everyone - or even that they are more expensive at all.
Yes, the middle class has a lot to lose on this one, since it always ends up that the middle class pays the taxes to support each new social program. It is a fantasy that only the rich will pay for the UHC, and the poor don’t have any money to pay out. And yes, they take shit from their employers but guess what? With or without a UHC, they will still have to take that shit because they will still need to have a job!
Well, where ever you are, it apparently isn’t here and I haven’t seen anything that indicates that there would be a tier system in any of the proposed UHCs. I’d be surprised if there were, since I don’t think that any of the current government insurance plans offer any choices.
They don’t get paid when our current government insurance plans don’t come thru either. You do know that we already have three federal government insurance plans and a bunch of state ones? So we already have plenty of examples of how well or not the government would run a UHC here.
Yes, I have pre-existing conditions, but so does a friend of mine and she has private coverage. Apparently, one can get a private policy that carves out the pre-existing conditions. Or she lied to them, I don’t know.
I take it then that you are of the opinion that there is nothing wrong with people planning on raising 2-3 kids on what they make at WalMart and the local gas station?
As I said, I had no option for scholarships, and certainly no one I could borrow money from. I spent the first four-five years of my adult life living on the Canadian border in a house with no heat with four others. And even then it was hand to mouth. By the time I got to the point where I would have had time/money for college, I’d already learned a trade and was in a stable job that paid well and had benefits. So basically, it took me a bit longer but I also didn’t have any loans to pay off either.
Do you not understand that this is an abnormal condition, that will eventually change?
Not, it’s not. It is not necessary to society that we have McDonald’s or AM/PMs. And because we have so many people in this country and not enough decent jobs to go around, we have people planning on making a living working at these places. And they will have more people, raised in poor surroundings, probably not very well educated and most likely completely unprepared to get a decent job. And you support this and ignore that it has become more and more common with each generation.
I cited the hell out of it the last time we went around on this and you suddenly stopped posting. There are plenty of studies and information out there about the shrinking middle class, the drag of poor education/not finishing high school, the demand for more money and benefits for menial labor (look up the fight with WalMart for example).
I said none of that. He said he paid for it for half the year when it was more likely he would be injured, but when I asked why he couldn’t afford it the other half of the year, he got defensive. Just as everyone demanding that they get taxpayer sponsored insurance gets defensive if you ask them why they cannot afford to get their own policy (other than those out in the cold due to pre-exist). I find it astounding that people can demand that I pay a new tax to give them insurance, but feel I have no right to ask why it is that they need me to pay for it.
I have said many times there is nothing special about me, which is one reason why it makes no sense that I am not having all these problems and sooo many people are. Why is it that you resist trying to find out why this is such an issue, instead of rushing to throw billions of dollars at it? Why is it that you hurry to enslave even more people to our government on one hand and burden others more than they already are? Why is it that my parents could raise four kids in a nice suburb on one not so hot salary, but these days most people need dual incomes? Try looking at the root of the problem instead of just burying it.
Location is Europe.
UHC gives one single plan, no upgrade or tier system.
Payment is mostly a percentage of your income, so rich people pay more, since there is a tier system for the percentage.
If you want more, you have to get Privat insurance, cost is something like €300-600 per Year for a family.
However,you do not need it, since all medical bills are taken care of depending of the country.
Germany has something like, pay your GP quarterly €10-20 (but only if you visit him in this quarter)
Ireland has per the GP per visit €40-60 (follow ups are covered usually in the fee).
Prescriptions are usually paid for by UHC to a certain level.
It works in every other civilized country in the 1st world, if the USA can not do something as simple as UHC, than there is something seriously wrong with it’s organizational skill and a revision of the status of the US as a world leading country has to be made.
You may have missed the point here. It is not cost-effective for the Post Office to serve every US address because there of the people living in the sticks. The denizens of urban areas effectively subsidize the people living in Montana and Nebraska, because it costs a hell of a lot less per capita to deliver mail in a city or suburb than to a single home in the middle of a bunch of cornfields (or Hawaii or Alaska, for that matter).
Since US physicians rarely if ever offer home visits these days, this is not really a consideration in healthcare.
Anyway, the whole premise of a for-profit health system introduces a thousand layers of bureaucracy that can only really be dealt with via a single payer system. So, you’re quite right that the current bill will do little to improve the situation - although that’s the fault of the Republicans who demanded that every useful provision be removed.
Well, don’t worry - the current iteration of the bill doesn’t promise to provide healthcare to every American.
However, the math and logic of a non-torpedoed reform bill certainly add up. The government is already providing healthcare to every American. The problem is that the healthcare it currently provides to the uninsured is through hospital emergency rooms.
There is absolutely no good reason why people should be going to critical care facilities for colds and stomachaches, but if you haven’t got insurance, that may be your only option. That means the government is reimbursing hospitals for thousands of dollars for services that a normal general practitioner could provide for a few hundred. In fact, a general practitioner wouldn’t have to provide the services in many cases, since people with insurance receive preventive healthcare rather than just acute care - and acute care is always more expensive.
I don’t know where you got that idea from. Some of it will be paid for by cutting Medicare benefits. Medicaid is administered by the states, and short of taking over the whole thing themselves there’s very little the feds can do to fix it.
Ah, sorry my misunderstanding.
I read up on it a bit and somehow got to the same conclusion.
Kinda like: “It’s broken, but don’t fix it, since I’m currently fine and it’s someone else’s problem anyhow.”
I also presume, that the Health Insurance Premiums are more expensive in the US than in Europe, depending on the country of cos.
At least, after getting treatment over here I don’t have to worry about loosing my house and everything else, if the insurance fails to pay. Which does not happen, since my insurance is covered by the government. So the hospital & doctors don’t have to worry about being paid.
And don’t tell me, that doctors get less paid over here, their pay is substantially better here, since they get paid and don’t have the problems that insurances are not paying.
Post is a different service. It generally brings the post to YOU.
Where as you GO TO the doctor.
Did you ever have a problem bringing the letter to a Post office… delivery might be a problem.
…back to the topic at hand
Doctor call outs is a completely different story and has only marginal to do with UHC.
Even in Europe is is pretty rare for doctors to come to a house, unless it is necessary.
Since we life in a capitalistic society, if there is a market for something, there is someone who will make a living out of it. We usually have doctors, that are specialized in that field, they do nothing else but house visits or signe up with a service that does so.
Here is how it works in Ireland:
And in the USA:
I can put the highlight in for you
***the United States is the “only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage” (i.e. some kind of insurance).
Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States
The USA’s life expectancy lags 42nd in the world, after most rich nations, lagging last of the G5 (Japan, France, Germany, UK, USA) and just after Chile (35th) and Cuba (37th).
More money per person is spent on health care in the United States than in any other nation in the world,and a greater percentage of total income in the nation is spent on health care in the U.S. than in any United Nations member state except for East Timor.
Medical debt is the principal cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States.
Compare it here
People are afraid of paying more, should look here. Others are paying much less for more
It might be pretty rare, but it does happen. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. About 4 years ago, my mother developed some condition (rapid pulse, faint-headed, etc.) at about 9 or 10PM, and her GP came out to the house to check on her. A year later, the day before my father died, the same GP also came into Cork city on a Friday afternoon (huge traffic) to see my father in the hospital. Not to render any treatment, but just to say goodbye to a long-time patient. I thought that was a pretty classy thing to do, and I have a hard time imagining that happening in the USA.
Really Doughbag, your cites are powerless against the relentless force of the curlinator.
Can you provide a cite that states, without equivocation, that curlcoat* in particular* will not have to pay so much as 5 cents more in taxes or that she will not be inconvenienced in any way, shape or form, either in reality or fantasy? If you can’t provide this specific cite, then you are wasting your time.
She simply does not care about anyone else, or the good of the country for that matter.
I may be slow sometimes, but I came to the same conclusion.
All I can say is, we (meaning countries with UHC) pay less per capita for health care.
Curlcoat, would actually save money. Maybe not the first year, but once the system has adjusted to the NEW way.
Insurance companies, will offer upgrade packages instead. Main thing is, YOU and Curlcoat get coverage. As a matter of fact, she can cancel her premium insurance and save all that money.
Just look at the effects UHC had on Turkey
…and yes, even a piss poor country as Turkey can afford it. I’m sure they earn less in Turkey a month as Curlcoat pays for her insurance every year.
Those silly misguided idiots. They should just get better jobs instead of causing all these problems by having shitty jobs. Same with the homeless. Just get a house, morons!
Purely out of curiosity and boredom, I decided to copy and paste every word curlcoat wrote in this thread to a word count program to find out how much she has written, being scrupulous to ensure that I included just the words she has written and none of the replies.
Curlcoat has written 11,699 words in this thread alone. A standard novel usually contains around 50,000 words. She has probably written the equivalent of a novel’s worth of words railing against Universal Health Care on this message board. As far as I can gather, nobody has changed their minds on this subject even after this extreme amount of dialogue.
Curlcoat, I know that we have very different points of view, but I think we both agree on one thing: There’s a lot in this world that doesn’t please us. But being pissed off about this fact 24/7 is no way to live your life.
I gather you have a lot of spare time on your hands. Perhaps you should find a more satisfying hobby than this. I humbly suggest you take up playing an MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online Game) such as World of Warcraft. It’s a much less stressful way to spend the day than tilting at windmills on a message board.
Yeah, poor people! It’s not necessary to have McDonalds or AM/PM or any of those other places those filthy poor people work. Like movie theatres or WalMarts or gas stations or grocery stores … sounds like a fun society to me!
Do you not understand that unemployment and underemployment are the norm for modern post-industrial societies and it will NOT change?
Menial jobs have been part of society since Og and Ogette first started living in communal groups. As societies get bigger, there is even more need for some members to do the shit jobs that the likes of you turn your nose up at. Y’see, someone has to clean the toilet and make the burgers. You are just damned lucky it ain’t you darls. :rolleyes:
Oh curlcoat, you amaze me with your seemingly infinite lack of understanding and insight. How a person of your age and experience has managed to get to this stage of your life still so fucking bog stupid confounds me.
Seeing as how you didn’t contradict anything I said, I’m not sure what you mean by assumptions.
Modern humans do not suffer from the effects of overcrowding, lack of resources and/or domination by others?
:rolleyes: Maybe this is the result of going to college for a living, believing everything you read. Do you no longer have a logical brain? It would seem not, since you sole contribution to the discussion is to say I’m braindead and you are wonderful…
Then why would it be available - who buys it?
That would be a bad thing? It would be kind of nice if we didn’t have to keep running off making war everywhere. On the other hand, if we were no longer world leaders, I suppose your countries wouldn’t want to buy the results of the research into new drugs and medical devices going on here, either.
As for it not working in the US, if nothing else do you realize that having one UHC to cover the whole US is like having one to cover all of Europe? If that is so great, why aren’t you all doing it?
No one can provide a cite for or against that idea because no one knows exactly what we are going to end up with and how they are going to fund it. However, if one looks at history (you know, that thing we are doomed to repeat?), social programs tend to be paid by taxes, and the middle class tends to pay comparatively more in taxes than the lower class or the upper class. Such as what Doughbag said about there being a tier system where ever he is, except here the rich seem to be able to get away with paying less tax some how.
Actually, it is the good of the country that you all are ignoring here. We keep enslaving more and more people to the government handouts, and losing more and more of the middle class. How far do you want to take that trend? Remember, it isn’t me that will be leaving children behind to try to deal with the mess you all have been making and want to make worse.
And from “less work” I was supposed to assume that meant significantly less money? If so, why did he get all defensive when I asked why it was that he couldn’t afford to buy insurance all year? I suppose that’s what you all do - assume the worst based on something as filmy as “less work during the winter”.
