Heaven or Hell for non-believers?

Great Debates
21

Being the Immoral Atheist Bastard[sup]tm[/sup] that most religious types would like to make me out to be on account of my disbelief in an all powerful creator, I offer my views on the whole Heaven/Hell debate.

It has always been my personal view that an afterlife simply does not exist. My life, My existance, is tied up in the time that I am on this earth. This is my heaven, this is also my hell. By living a moral life as deemed by my own sense of what is right or wrong, I can live my life happily, seeking joy and meaning in helping others, or I can bring myself to be a miserable depressed heap, causing life to be my hell. My life may just be a flicker in the night, but so long as I live it happily, I am in my own heaven. Whenever I die, I assume nothing happens, just like before you were born, no pain, no joy, no self. Not knowing is part of the adventure though. While I may look towards death with apprehension, it is but another part of life, and I will accept it for whatever it may be, and not fear it.

I always frowned on the whole idea of organized religion, it organizes people in a fashion similar to a government, but places the stakes much higher, taking advantage of the faith of others. I will follow my own path, not allow a church to decide it for me, and I welcome whatever may come.

22

Okay, look.

Activist Christian here, but one who tries to think. The most logical conclusion, in the absence of adequate evidence of God to convince you of His existence, is the sort of “soft atheism” regularly discussed on these boards: in the absence of “proof” of God, the reasonable presumption is His non-existence. This is not agnosticism, which says that we do not know or cannot know (soft and hard varieties), but rather equates God to any other superstition as presumably non-existent in the absence of proof.

I have proof adequate for me, have discussed it in several threads, am perfectly well aware of its subjectivity and therefore inadequacy to prove Him to others. Besides, it’s not my job, by His orders, to prove Him: I’m supposed to show Him and what He does in people by the life I live and the things I say and do. And that will constitute the proof you need.

For anyone to say “atheism is a farce” means that they have not thought through their own beliefs, either.

MEBuckner, theism is not a farce, either. Some of the exaggerated, blinders-equipped claims made by theologians may be farcical. But the idea of a God who works in and through a flawed universe, including with elements of apparent randomness, is not farcical, and there are numerous items of historical and evidentiary data to support it (as well as some that tend to refute it).

Interesting point. At least one theist here, Libertarian, would agree. However, ignoring the human tendency to seek power for a moment and looking at inner motivations, many feel that identification with an organized body, by their own choice, is the proper mode of carrying out the instructions of an Incarnate God with Whom they feel they have a personal relationship. Including me.

The difference is as simple as that between blind adherence to “Amurrika: Love It or Leave It” and informed patriotic citizenship that attempts to guide one’s legislators according to one’s personal views of the proper course to follow, standing behind them once they decide.

23

If you’ll notice, Polycarp, I basically just took gitfiddle’s words and said the exact opposite. When somebody says “You’re a big fat duh-head” in Great Debates, with no evidence or argument to back it up, I tend to think that “I know you are, but what am I?” is a perfectly valid and appropriate response.

I kind of felt bad about hijacking the O.P.'s thread, which wasn’t really supposed to be about atheism vs. theism, on any level of argumentation, until I realized that it was actually the O.P. who had started that particular hijack, so I let fly.

24

:o

Important message to would-be Great Debaters: Don’t skim the thread! Sometimes irony and rhetorical devices sneak up on you and bite you when you aren’t looking.

Sorry, M.E.

25

“Immoral Atheist Bastards” would be a good name for a rock band.

26

Well, Polycarp, you’re a big fat duh-head, but that’s okay. :smiley: