Many atheists (such as myself) are not believers simply because we feel there is a lack of evidence of him existing. If I witnessed an event which I felt beyond doubt proved his existence, I wouldn’t hesitate to believe in him.
But this brings up the situation of me going to hell. Lets say this event never happens in my lifetime and I die a non-believer. Many would say I would go to hell. But, if I went to heaven, I would find it beyond reasonable doubt proof of the Christian god.
This brings up a paradox: the only way I can go to heaven is to believe in god, but the only way I can believe in god is to get into heaven.
Possibly some atheists would still reject god even after passing through the pearly gates. But all most atheists want is proof. Is it fair to disqualify atheists based on such a simple statement that they “reject god”, when this belief is subject to change?
Currently being an atheist, I don’t understand why I must accept god in my mortal life. Judaism didn’t say all non-Jews go to hell. They didn’t proselytize and generally let other peoples do what they want. But Christianity said by-and-large you WILL go to hell if you don’t accept god and/or Jesus in your mortal life. And of course, they do proselytize.
From the position of an atheist, Christianity’s policy on non-believers and hell is simply the use of scare tactics to gain converts.
If I am rejected from heaven based on my premise of necessary proof, I feel that the Christian god is a malelovent one.
I’d like in particular to hear the Christian response to my post!
“If you prefer a sadist for a god, then keep your hell of fire and brimstone. You are welcome to it. However, do not mistake us for simple-minded children who may be frightened by such talk. …[Hell] is an evolved, man-made concept. Thus, hell holds no terror for us. There is no “grim truth” there to be owned up to at some future date, except in ignorant minds. We do not waste our time and energy on such idiocy.” – Author Unknown
You are close to being right,but not quite,there is a god!
We are here,the Universe is here,God is female and her
name is mother nature,and everyones life is a once in
forever event.Everything dies even stars in the Universe.
They say if you want to know what it is like to be dead
think about the way it was befor you were born.
Nothingness,the big blackout.People don't like that and
so from the earliest of times he has set out to change
things more to his liking,mans ego,fear of nothingness
created Religion not God,and has grown like a cancer
It is Evil,man uses it to justify killing those of different
faiths from the earliest of times to this day,just pick up
a newspaper or turn on the evening news.Taking someones. once in forever event form them is the Ultimate Sin.
I'm sick and tired of the religions to imposing thier pius
morals on the rest of us.They don't know it but we are
all going to the same place,the place we were befor we
were born. May the force be with you
Franko
Atheists don’t believe in God or hell. So why does it matter that others think that you’re headed there, if you don’t even believe it exists?
I’m a Christian. Ask a Muslim where I’m going when I die and they’d probably say hell (feel free to correct, I’m not up on Islamic views of the afterlife). Ask a Mormon where I’m going and it’d be what? The 2nd level of heaven? (Not the celestial kingdom but also not that really crappy version of heaven that all the bad people go to.) Most Jews would probably say that I’ll cease to exist when I die. And so on and so forth.
They’re free to think that. Their opinion of where I’m going to go when I die is irrelevant to me.
Why does it matter to you that some believe you’re going to hell? Is it because of the sheer number of people who think so? Would it be different if Christianity was a really tiny religion of maybe 1 million members?
I’ve always wondered this, maybe you can shed some light on the subject. I find this to be a common thread among the atheists I’ve known.
PS: Aside from Christianity are there any other religions that believe in hell?
O.K. you yahoo’s lets get something straight! The single most
determinating factor of what faith you will be is where you are
born! India=Hindu , Middle east= Muslim, Asia=Buddist,
Europe=Christian,Israel=Jewish and so on.And each group
thinks they have the inside track to God.Having never even
tried to seriously studied the other religions to see if they may
be the way to God. All they do is condem each other as being
the tools of the Devil.And they go to war with oneanother on
a regular basis.I think the world would be a much better place
without religion.I don’t need religion to beleave in God,but my
version of God is very different than thiers.If God wanted to
create paradise he should not created man in the first place.
The world will be a paradise once mankind distroys himself
as he surely will.
You might want to know that not all Christians believe in hell. My personal belief is that all of your questions will be answered some day. I believe in a God of love and not of hellfire and wrath.
It doesn’t necessarily matter if they think that: it certainly matters if they are OKAY with that. We are cynical indeed if we aren’t shocked by the fact that some people think it ultimately okay that their neighbors will end up in hell if they can’t be convinced to believe: indeed, no matter what they have done. That’s an outrageously objectionable attitude that somehow manages to sit quietly in polite company.
“but the only way I can believe in god is to get into heaven.”
That’s not true, you’d believe in god if you went to hell, also. I’d imagine being sent to hell would give you proof that there’s a god and you should have been believing in him.
Thus there’s no paradox. But of course, the whole concept of hell/heaven/god is ridiculous anyway, so thinking about it (believing is not thinking) is bound to bring up situations that don’t make any sense. Kinda like the purple 56 ton elephant in my ass. It’s easy to believe in it, but if you start to think about it you might wonder how it fits up there?
Not to suggest that the OP is trolling, but I suspect that questions like this are mostly a poke at the un-logical nature of religion rather than an attempt to understand. I’m talking “in general” here, not targeting this particular thread.
PS Franko–our lovely Mother Nature also gave us spaces after periods.
One: “(Not the celestial kingdom but also not that really crappy version of heaven that all the bad people go to.)” Terrestrial, I believe.
Two: I think, there are way to rationalize God to the point where one could quite easily believe in Him before dying. I am personally Christian, but I don’t agree that this faith is perfect, no more than Islam, or Judaism, or Buddhism or any other religion.
Some Christians give the rest of us a bad name by doing exactly that, using scare tactics as part of “evangelizing” atheists and non-Christians in general.
Yes but it’s been explained to me that hell is supposed to be nonexistance in contrast to being poked in the ass with a trident. Fire and brimstone is just a metaphor. In that case, I’m not sure if I’d be aware enough to realize that it proves his existance.
I’m a weak atheist. So shoot me. I feel that even though that’s my belief, there’s a chance of it being the wrong one. And there’s a chance of other religions being the correct one. I feel that there’s no way to know with 100% certainty which belief system is correct since our view of the universe and existence is so limited. I guess I have some agnostic views aswell.
Perhaps I am poking at the un-logical nature of religion. I simply find the concepts I mentioned un-logical. But I want to hear from beleivers why I, someone willing to believe if only given a chance, would have to go to hell because I had to believe before I died. If god is omnipotent, there wouldn’t be *any rules.
According to twainquotes.com Mark Twain said that. Well, he didn’t say “company”, he said “society”, though I’ve always heard it quoted as “company” too, so no fault there.
Because many of those others constantly harrass and badger us and try to to impose their rules on us.
You would be incorrect. Islam does not teach that you have to be Muslim to go to heaven.
It’s not as if atheists are let alone by Christians in this society. There is tremendous pressure, both overt and subliminal, to acknowledge the existence of a deity. If you don’t stand up for “God Bless America” at a football game you get dirty looks. George Bush Sr. once said that atheists aren’t really Americans. Religious leaders constantly excoriate atheists from pulpits. Any attempts by atheists, agnostics or even theists to maintain secularism in government is decried as being “anti-God.” Then, of course, there are the evangelists who take it upon themselves to “save” us from hell. Why do so many Christians seem to care if I do go to Hell?
Yes, but generally not an eternal hell. Some schools of Buddhism and Hinduism have temporary hells. Islam is the only other major religion I’m aware of that has an eternal hell.
Any person that tells me I going to hell for not believing gets the answer that I’m as sure as they are that they’re not going to heaven because it doesn’t exist.
