Ok, this just happened to a friend of mine. He was going to the Bahamas via Cleveland. Was driving down to Cleveland from Toronto, as he can get a hook up for an essentially free flight from Cleveland opposed to a fairly expensive one from Toronto. He was held up at the US border, crossing at the Peace bridge (Buffalo) for 3 hours! After the initial refusal by US customs to enter into the US he said fine, I’m going back to Canada then. And they refused to allow him to leave. Now I was always under the impression that you couldn’t be held by customs agents if you no longer wanted to enter into the country. And Canada has to accept him, he is a Canadian Citizen, born here. He had no drugs, weapons, he isn’t even Islamic! He’s a white guy (half jewish in fact).
So my question is how did US customs hold him for 3 hours after initially refusing him entry, then him stating fine I’ll go back to Canada, and still not be allowed to leave? Is this due to the draconian laws enacted post 9/11? Or could customs always hold you even after you said screw it, I’m going home?
They didn’t allow him to leave? That is strange. Back in the 80’s I had a little issue at the border and I was refused entry into the US. There was some paper work to fill out and after that they happily sent me back to Canada. The US officials were saying that it was possible that Canada wouldn’t let me back in (turns out they were trying scare tactics), the guy at the Canadian side of the crossing couldn’t have cared less as to why I was coming right back.
It is possible that the INS or DHS was running some sort of criminal check on your friend.
There is more to this than in your story. Was he refused re-entry by Canada or just not released for three hours by the US? Why was he refused entry into the US in the first place? Was his lack of cooperation the reason they held him for a while?
As I understand it, he was held by the US customs for 3 hours, not refused by Canada. He wasn’t allowed to leave to even go see if Canadian customs would hold him up. I am not sure why he was refused entry, he is in the Bahamas atm and I can only communicate via email, not always the fastest communication.
Oh yeah, and I never said he wasn’t co-operating. He just didn’t want to lose his anal virginity to some scummy customs agent. As far as I know, no longer desiring to enter a country and requesting to go back to your own isn’t not co-operating. However I do come from the school of refusing police searches without warants, never give out my SSN, fear big brother libertarian type.
Changing your mind at the last minute would most likely have been seen as ‘getting cold feet’ by the INS official. I imagine that would be an act that would trigger the ‘that ain’t right’ portion of the agents brain. After that they were probably trying to determine how much of a threat your friend possed. And yes, it most likely is a result of changes after 9/11.
He didn’t change his mind beacuse he got ‘cold feet’, he asked to be let go after proving his identity, answering all the questions over and over until he got tired of it (after about an hour) and asked to go home because he was tired of his treatment.
He didn’t refuse a search, his bags were searched. He didn’t have a physical plane ticket but did have an email printout from the ticketing agency proving that he was booked on a flight from Cleveland to Freeport, but the US custom agents didn’t seem to feel that was good enough, they wanted the actual ticket even though it is quite common to pick up your ticket at the airport. As the customs agent put it “how do we know your not going to France?”. It was strictly the US custom agents, Canada at no pint was involved, even when asked. He was co-operating with the Customs agent. They put him in a little room and every 20-30 mins or so would come in and ask him the same questions: Where are you going? Where are you staying when you get there? How do we know your going there? Why from cleveland and not Toronto? Then would leave, rinse and repeat for 3 hours. His driver’s licence was taken away, and not given back for 3 hours (not such abig deal I suppose, they needed some proof of who he was). Another agent came in and asked for his student card. When my friend did not have one said 'you have to have one, I’ve lived in Canada and everyone has a student card". Which is not true. All highschools issue one and post-secondary instutitions, but high school was a bit ago (my friend is 21) and didn’t go to university or college. He had his passport and Drivers licence, which should have been plenty (the Bahamas doesn’t require a passport, birth certificate and drivers licence is good enough, part of the commonwealth you know). This went on for 3 hours, after about 1 hour he asked to just go home and go back to Canada, they refused.
And that is where my question arises, are you allowed to refuse a citizen of another country to leave your country and go home even though no laws have been broken, and he has no criminal record? I always thought you couldn’t and that you couldn’t hold people at the border between US/Canada for no reason beyond the time it would reasonably take to confirm who they were, and where they are going?
For the record, I have no desire to analy probe anyone.
It sounds like your friend’s citizenship was in question, and therefor he was in their eyes lying, they wanted to find out why. In order for them to have kept him, several factors had to ‘not add up’ and they were trying to trip him up (the student card question). One lone Customs Agent can’t hold someone like that, he/she must explain the situation to a Supervisor and get approval. You were not there and so you won’t ever know the whole story. It makes my day to find drugs, fake papers, wanted felons etc. I get no pleasure ruining anyone’s day. My family travels as do I and I don’t want anyone treating them like that. The laws at the border are quite different, I’m sure some internet research can answer any of those questions for you. Be prepared to get pissed off though, we have a lot of authority and power and most people don’t know that. I was shocked myself. We are not out to 'f%&*@ with people for kicks. Having said that, let me also say that every job that requires you to wear a uniform, carry a gun and have a little power attracts some Jerks. We call them ‘badge heavy’ and they don’t last long usually.
I wasn’t trying to attack customs agents in general. I’m quite sure there are some nice ones out there, and ones who aren’t out to ruin the days of travellers. I know that you have a lot of power, and inevitably some will abuse said power. I don’t see how his identity/nationality could have been in question for 3 hours. He had a passport and a driver’s licence. HOw long could it take to verify that both were real? I can’t imagine 3 hours. You, as a custom’s agent, would I think know the answer to my question. If we ignore what happened here (which we will never know for sure what happened even if he came here and told his side of the story unless we got the customs agents to tell theirs as well), can a person attempting to enter a country, lets say the US, decide its to much hassle and say fine screw you, I’m going home? Would this end the US custom agents jurisdiction? I’d guess that you would still have to deal with your home countries customs, say Canada’s, but would the US have to let you go, even if it was just into the custody of Canadian customs?
Oh, as to the internet reseach thing. I’m not a very good googler. Most of the sites I’ve found don’t seem to answer my question (which I suppose could mean its a dumb question) or are written in legalese.
I really have to start previewing so I don’t double post.
I just need to clarify: Was your friend held up by Customs or by Immigration? Things may be different at the US-Canada border, but at other points of entry (i.e., airports) these are two entirely different sets of officials. Immigration is concerned with who you are while Customs only cares about what you’re carrying with you. Immigration comes first, to determine whether to let you into the country, then passes you to Customs, who then go over your belongings to see whether you have to pay duties or are bringing contraband into the country. In short, invalid visa = immigration, illicit material = customs.
Since your friend was being held by officials concerned with his identification (or apparent lack thereof), they were most likely immigration officers, not customs agents.
Hmmm, good question. I don’t know at this time whether it was Customs or Immigration. In fact, I wasn’t really aware of a huge difference. Now I am, thanks :). From your description it would seem more likely to be Immigration, as they were concerned with where he was going and who he was, both of which he ahd proof of. I didn’t even think there was immigration at the Canada-US border as it is a very busy crossing, and there are some special rights granted to Canadians entering the US and vice versa. But that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, not just Canadians and Americans cross at the peace bridge.
Customs and Immigration were run by different federal deparments. Customs, since they seek to extort, er, levy import duties was run by the US Treasury Department. Immigration was run by the Department of State. Nowadays, I believe they fall under the umbrella of the Department of Homeland Security, so the distinction may be moot.
While Customs and Immigrations might have been run by different departments, it was never my experience crossing the Canada/US border that one talked to two sets of people. Usually just the one guy in the booth (who was Customs, according to the uniform), and occasionally you get sent inside, and it’s just more of the same. I haven’t been across since the advent of Homeland Security.