Possibly, but the only time I received such a push poll, it was a Democrat on the other end of the line, pushing the idea that the Republican was at the bottom of some totally imaginary scandals.
I do. The Republicans in Congress balanced the budget two years after taking over. Democrats controlled the House for twenty-five years, and the Senate for most of that time, and never balanced the budget once.
And based on every crackpot spending scheme put forth by the Democratic candidates for President, the idea that the Democrats can be trusted to cut back on spending and eliminate the deficit is too ridiculous to be considered.
Shodan, who is in control of both parties and the White House? What kind of budgets are they passing? And why do you still think it’s the fault of a party that they’re pointedly shutting out of all authority? That was below even your usual standards. Time to face reality, chump.
I’m really, really hoping this was either a satirical or ironic post.
“I’m a republican because I’m fiscally conservative, and by that I mean absolutely, positively no more than $400B in debt”
“I’m a republican because I abhor excessive government intervention in the rights and responsibilities of citizens unless you are gay and want to get married, unless you want and abortion, or unless you are an athiest who doesn’t like the idea of $28B of your federal taxes going to the church”
The overfed white men are in charge of your party too, you know, and have been for quite a long time. But my realistic choices are Republican and Democrat, and I am not by philosophy or inclination a Democrat. Do I agree with the Republican party’s stance on abortion? Largely not. Do I agree with its stance on gun control? Largely not. I think that putting forward laws that restrain free choice on the sole basis of morality is a bad idea – and anti-Republican. IMO, sound public policy reasons exist for at least limited gun control, in that a lack of gun control negatively impacts public health and safety. IMO, no such sound public policy reason exsits for limiting a woman’s right to choose to terminate an early pregnancy. I don’t find these positions to be inconsistent with what the Republican party is supposed to stand for, and I don’t consider the opinions of others (Republican or Democrat) who disagree with me to be my problem.
No, no, no – I didn’t and don’t support Clinton; as I said, I’m a Republican.
The principle that people should not be allowed to tell me who to sleep with, or what to do with my body. Or how to raise my kids or how to spend my money or how I should run my business. And if the government is going to try to tell me how to run my life, it should be the government in my county seat, not the government in Washington.
ELVIS, you have consistently refused to accept that I am not “absolutely loyal” to the Republican party. I understand why; that way, every time you disagree with me politically, you can attempt to tar me as some knee-jerk partisan, despite the total lack of any statement or evidence to support that conclusion. As it happens, I agree with the above – of course you vote for the people who believe in the same things you do. I think it’s ridiculous to assert that party loyalty must mean voting a straight party ticket in every election, without any thought whatsoever. Which is why I’ll never amount to much politically. I have very little loyalty to any political party, and I cannot expect any political party to have much loyalty to me.
But the fact remains, by philosophy, I am a Republican. When I consider the candidates who most closely embody the issues I care about and the changes I’d like to see, those people tend to be Republicans.
So if you know of some third party that believes in fiscal conservancy and wide personal freedoms, and which is not largely delusional and/or powerless (i.e., the Libertarians), point me to it and I will sign up. But with the choices I have now, I am a Republican. And part of why I am a Republican is because I will not leave the party to the moral majority ultra right wingers who only believe in personal freedom when it’s freedom they approve of. I try to fight the good fight from inside the camp, and if you had any sense at all – which, ELVIS, I’ve never seen any indication you, personally, do – you’d be happy that I’m doing so.
If my position confuses you, tough. If you don’t approve of it – well, that’s proof IMO I’m on the right track.
Jodi, you’ve essentially repeated what you believe to be your core beliefs (with the same sidestep of Bush’s “personal responsibility” that Shodan used, and a totally unsupported sideswipe at my “sense”). But you’re not addressing the point that I would have thought was clear: Why do you support a party whose actions and leadership are in opposition to your beliefs? You say you are “philosophically” a Republican, but the facts and issues you raise seem to say otherwise - well, what “philosophies” lead you to give them your support anyway? All the ones you’ve listed as important should lead you away - if not to the Democrats or a third party, then at least to a responsible independent citizenship. And yes, no party that has enough size to actually do anything will perfectly match any particular person’s preferences, so the “they’re not perfect either” argument is still naive.
Since you bring it up, the Christian Right is in charge of the GOP now and for the entire foreseeable future. The party you hold dear, for reasons you have not explained one bit, has already been left to them - it’s too late for you to say you won’t let that happen. They control it now. You don’t have any real influence that will inhibit that. If you can’t stand sharing a party with them, somebody has to leave, and you know it won’t be them. But they’ll happily let you vote for them and then ignore you as long as you let that happen.
What a person or party truly believes is shown by their actions, not their words, of course. Now please attempt to answer the question, and without the counterproductive childish cracks this time: In what ways does the early-21st-century GOP and its actions represent your personal philosophies better than any other party does?
I already answered this: Because it is on balance not in opposition to my beliefs. It is on balance in the same direction as my beliefs, especially my political beliefs.
I’ll give your opinion of my naivete the consideration I believe it deserves. I agree with the Republican party on the broad issues of economics, national defense, and the role of government. I am more a Republican than I am a Democrat or a "third party"er. I am practicing “responsible independent citizenship.” The fact that you don’t approve of the way in which I do so does not concern me in the least.
YOU say they’re in control “for the entire foreseeable future.” The way to guarantee that is for moderate Republicans to leave. I do NOT hold the party “dear,” as – far from “not explaining one bit” – I just finished saying. You might have better luck comprehending my posts if you read them all, and not just the parts that you think support your argument, or your perception of who I am and what I must believe or do.
They are in favor of localized governance as opposed to federalized governance. They are in favor of a strong national defense. They are in favor of fiscal conservativism. They are in favor of the responsiblity of the individual. Not that I owe you an explanation of any of this, much less a term paper on “why I am a Republican,” so don’t imagine it’s open to argument, especially with you. My political beliefs and the reasons for them are largely none of your business, as surely you know. They are not open to judgment regarding their legitimacy. As I have already said, when I look at candidates who believe in the things I believe in, and who will accomplish the things I believe should be accomplished (or try to), those candidates are very much more often Republicans than Democrats. That’s pretty much all you need to know.
In any event, you are in a poor position to try to argue me out of my political beliefs, if that is your intention. I am quite serious when I tell you that I think so little of your political philosophy and political acumen that I take your disagreement on political matters as a sign that I’m on the right track.
For what it’s worth, I’m hoping Arnold’s governorship is a first step in a swing away from the Christian Right. It’s coming, if we work at it. And I am, as much as I can.
I see you still couldn’t resist the counterproductive childish cracks. Ah, well, that says more about you than about anyone else. Now then …
In what way do you think the moderates have any power in the GOP now, or have any way to recover it in the foreseeable future? You’re concerned about what might happen if the moderates leave - well, smell the coffee, Buttercup, it’s no different than what you have now, and there’s no way you can change it, either. To stick with them anyway is to let yourself be used. You can condemn anyone who points that out to you if you like, but that really isn’t a responsible position to take, is it?
I very explicitly made a point that the party’s beliefs are expressed in its actions. You again replied with a statement of what you think its beliefs are, or even what they should be but admittedly aren’t, not what its actions are. That also does not reflect a responsible, thought-out position.
Please understand: I am not, as you somehow suggest, attempting to change your beliefs, just to help you act on them instead of against them as you have been doing. Clear now?
I ditto everything Jodi said. I am a registered Republican because more often than not, I lean to the right:
Less centralized government: For instance, I think the current private medical insurance system has loads of room for improvement. However I would vote against ANYONE who thinks the government would do a better job at it and should take it over. The government has been busted for paying $1500 for a wrench. Do I want these same people managing my health care? Um, no.
Besides, Canadians may all be on a national health system. But whose drugs do they buy? Ours. Because every major promising drug has come from an American pharmaceutical company. Competition is necessary, competition is GOOD.
*Strong, effective defense: I think a good defense is a kick-ass offense. That doesn’t mean we should play the part of the world bully, but technologically and militarily speaking, we should be second to no one.
*Litigation caps: The Democratic Senators who killed this legislation should be taken out and beaten. Don’t see a connection between rising medical costs and outrageous lawsuits? You should.
*Personal responsibility (e.g. welfare reform): Nobody wants to see a child go hungry. But the last thing we need is to continue subsidizing people for having children that they cannot support. I had no more children than I could support. It wasn’t an accident.
However, on other issues, I swing to the center or left. Gun control: good thing. Abortions should always be allowed up to a certain time (e.g. 15 weeks). And we should protect the environment. Clean air, clean water, cleaner fuels – if companies will not make this a priority on their own because it interferes with their profitability, then the government should step in and force the issue.
And, face it, the government should stay out of people’s bedrooms. You wanna practice analingus, it is YOUR prerogative. Because it’s distasteful to me does not mean it is distasteful to you. And if a woman wants to cohabitate and raise children with another woman, the government should keep its nose out of it. Stability is good for everyone.
Sez you. And, at the end of the day, who gives a shit what you think? I am not required to abandon a party, or a church, or a family member that I believe is largely worthwhile just because there are planks or positions or opinions I disagree with. You apparently ascribe to the belief that it’s perfect love or no love at all – not surprising given your dog-like devotion to the Democratic party – but that is not a belief I happen to share. I choose to stay with the party and do what I can to change in the the areas in which I believe it needs change. You may see that as a lost cause, but as should be glaringly obvious, I am singularly unconcerned about how you see it.
For the third time – and with all sincerity – I am only interested in your opinion of what constitutes a responsible, thought-out position to the extent that it is likely to indicate to me what is quite likely an irresponsible, thoughtless position. Again: I have no problem with 90%+ of the actions of Republican candidates. That’s why I continue to vote for them. For that matter, I agree with 90% of the planks in the Republican party. That’s why I’m a member.
ELVIS, I think your political beliefs and the way you explain them and purport to act on them are so deeply fucked up that hearing you say you think I having been acting “against” my beliefs only reinforces my conviction that I’m doing precisely the right thing. As a general rule, hearing that you think that I or anyone should go in one particular direction immediately leads me to assume that the better thing to do is to go in the exact opposite direction. Really. Therefore, it is highly unlikely you could ever “help” me do anything insofar as politics or political philosophy is concerned, because my default assumption is that you are a font of bad political wisdom and advice.
Clear now?
LEZLERS –
Do I support President Bush? Generally, yes. Am I happy with his performance at this point in time? No. Would I vote for him again? That depends on how he’s performing at that point, and who’s running against him, so it would be greatly helpful if you Democrats could try to scare up a legitimate candidate with a prayer of giving him a run for his money, thereby giving me another option to consider. Would I vote for him again today, if a reasonable other option existed? No. I don’t automatically vote for the Republican, I vote for the person I think is the best candidate for the job. Whether or not that will be Bush will depend entirely on who the other guy is.
I mean, seriously, you can’t possibly think entitling a thead “Hey Conservative posters, can I have a minute of your time” in the PIt, would, like, turn into anything other than a political debate??? right???
Partly joking. But it was what they opened with when they called on the phone so it was too priceless not to put in the thread title. I imagine many people gazing at it had the same sort of reaction I did.
Hey, I didn’t mean to hijack your thread. All I did was drop by to say, I’m a registered Republican, and if they think those are the only two issues that matter, they ain’t gonna like me either. That somehow was read as an invitation to challenge the sincerity of my political beliefs under the transparent pretext of “helping” me act on them.
As far as the OP – I totally agree with you. Wait, that’s not very Pit-worthy.
