Help!! Decide the fate of this historic building

Cafe Society
1

I’m a consultant who’s been brought in to resolve a dispute between a building owner, city officials, and an advocacy group. The fate of this historic building is at stake. Currently, the city would like to condemn it, the owner would like to renovate it and create a successful business, and the advocacy group feels it should be restored to ultimately be used as a museum.

Ok, not really, but this is a hypothetical scenario for my Historical Preservation class. I have to decide what should happen to this building and write a paper outlining my arguments.

So, a brief history of what is now the State Theater (Tampa Bay area dopers, yes, the one in St. Pete). Originally built as a bank, it failed during the Depression and became an ice cream parlor, then a restaurant, before becoming a movie theatre in the 50s. Then sometime in the 80s (not sure exactly when) it was turned into a punk/alternative concert venue, which it currently is today.

Sooo… For the paper, I want to argue for adaptive reuse (basically just a preservation term meaning keeping the historic facade and as much of the interior as possible, but allowing for interior renovations providing they’re sensitive to the historic nature of the building). First, the building was gutted* at least 3 times- during the transformation from bank to ice cream parlor, then from parlor to theater, and once again when it became a concert venue.

Therefore, you have very little of the original (bank) interior, if any. Currently the interior looks much like a movie theater, except there’s a bar where you’d expect the ticket booth to be, and there’s no seats. There is a pretty nice balcony though. And of course the sloped floor.

So what type of business should it become? On the block currently you have a couple of hipster bars, a yoga place, a self-described rock ‘n’ roll salon and boutique, a couple of “antique” (read: junk) stores, an interior or architectural design studio, a guitar shop, a convenience store, and a tattoo shop. A lot of the opposite end of the block is vacant, because a few years back a developer bought out all the stores and wanted to put up condos, but then the condo market took a shit and nobody’s done anything with the vacant stores. Part of my argument will be that this new business can be an anchor on the block to draw in new tenants.

Ideas?
*If not completely gutted, at least significantly altered.

2

Gut it and make some money from it. That would follow the tradition of the building.

At least, starting as a bank, it’s probably structurally sound. In my town we had a theater from the 20s that had been built shoddily and had not been maintained properly for decades. It stood unoccupied for years before the guys at Big Idea (the Veggietales folks) bought it with the intention of it being the centerpiece of a small Veggietales theme park. Then they had people look at at it and estimate the cost to bring it back to code. Based on that they gave it to the village. Its fate went back and forth for year after year while the building returned to its constituent elements. There were protests when it was finally bulldozed, and they continue to this day.

Your building has an entertaining history, but it is far from HISTORICAL.

3

Well, without getting into the very precise terminology used by preservationists, why isn’t it historical? Unless you’re using that term to mean “famous and important things happened here” as opposed to meaning “this is a building more than 50 years old (per the Dept. of the Interior) that has architectural or historical value.”

It’s been designated a historic landmark by the city, although it is not on the National Register. But that’s neither here nor there, because I just want help brainstorming for this blasted paper.

4

Fill it with playpen balls up to the balcony. Serve cake.

5

Would the owner continue to run the live music venue once it’s renovated? If it’s been operated as a music venue since the 80’s, then it’s been the same business for over 20 years, which is a long time. If it’s been popular enough to last that long, why change it? Does this business use make enough money to keep it afloat, or has interest waned recently? Are there any other competing music venues? Is the market strong for a live music venue?

I would be inclined to have the owner renovate it and keep it as a live music venue. There aren’t enough good live music venues these days, and since it’s been one for so long, it is probably popular and serves an important arts & entertainment function, which is very important attraction to have in a medium-sized town to enhance the nightlife “scene” and to attract a young single demographic into the town who may otherwise live in larger urban areas.

The owner could also rent out the space for wedding receptions and parties to make extra profit, if the music is not enough. I also think communities need to have a nice and unique place available for things like wedding receptions, and the historic value and lovely exterior adds a lot to its appeal for uses such as this.

Lastly, you did not say what the city would do with the property if it were condemned. Clearly, if it would just be bulldozed and be a vacant lot, or become generic storefronts, I would say this is a bad idea. It takes away from the charm and character of the town.

You also didn’t say what type of museum the advocates would want to put there. I seriously doubt any type of museum would make enough profit to cover the expenses. It also seems like a pretty dull use for a space that has survived as a live music venue for so long.

6

The OUTSIDE of the building is old. The inside? Not so old. By gutting it but keeping the externals “old” they will, as I said, follow the tradition of the building.

My other point is that the broadest definitions of “historical” leave us stuck with a bunch of crappy, old buildings that can’t be used for anything. “Old” /= “historical and worthy of preservation,” and that ones history is intact however it is used.

OTOH, across a park from me is the “home” of our first resident. Ten years ago it was a living home that had been expanded on since the 1840s. When the Historical Society got their hands on it they tore down the additions, some made by the original owner, covered it with “olde timey” vinyl siding, and glazed it with fake antique glass (it has bubbles in it!). At its dedication I found in the dirt a commercial token from a grocery store in the 1930s. I offered it to the society, but they weren’t interested in anything not from the 1840s, as if the succeeding 160 years of the building were worthless.

7

I should also add that your State Theater reminds me of one of my favorite live music venues, The State Theater in Falls Church, VA (its web site is flash-heavy and slow; here is the Wiki link). It has a similar history. It started as a movie theater back in the 1930s and was built in an art-deco style. Over the years, it has been various things, including a hardware store. In the mid-1990s it was vacant, and instead of demolishing it and utilizing the very valuable piece of land, it was completely renovated and turned into an awesome live music venue, and it has completely energized and revitalized the downtown section of Falls Church. It has been a huge success and fills a huge need in this area. There are no other live music venues of this size anywhere in Northern Virginia - one would have to travel into Washington DC to see live music (other than cover bands playing in local bars). It’s brought a lot of life and business into the area which subsequently has grown and improved, with nicer restaurants and bars coming in up and down the street, making Falls Church a “destination” that it never was 10 years ago.

8

Alas, dropzone, I fear we’re getting a bit off topic. I’ve learned a lot about historic preservation in this class, and there are a lot of opposing viewpoints.

nyctea, if this were not a hypothetical situation, I would definitely want to keep it as a live music venue. I practically grew up in this building (or puking in the back alley as it were) and it’s still going strong, so there’s no real reason to change it. However, I had not read the syllabus very well, and did not realize that my teacher wanted a written proposal detailing our historical property until she sprung it on us at the end of our last class, so I just used the first old building whose address and history I knew. And so here we are.

9

I was BORN off-topic. :frowning:

As for the rest, ah-HAH! A student I can finally relate to! This board’s population leans FAR too heavily to people who started planning their final assignments several weeks, even MONTHS, before they were due. Really, the difference between a well-planned final and one pulled, properly, out of ones ass is surprisingly small.

As for keeping it on topic, nobody really expects you to do it. Otherwise a 20-page paper shrinks to 3 pages. The building is a POS that has been violated, historically speaking, six ways from Tuesday. A case that would require it is preserved in its present condition is a dead letter. You have to shift from a (spurious) claim that its internals deserve preservation to an acceptance that, yes, the zoning board has a proper claim and start listing ways that their and your claims intersect. You are screwed otherwise.

10

Yeah, one of the things I learned in this class was the multitude of possibilities when talking about preservation. It seems that the historical society you referenced above was into restoration, i.e. returning a building to its exact appearance at a specific point in time (say, 1840). But then there’s preservation, which says keep all additions, renovations, etc. because that’s all part of the life of a building. Adaptive reuse is a bit more flexible, because it admits that when you’re trying to give a building a feasible contemporary use, you might have to completely change the interior. And since that’s what already happened with this building, that’s sort of the way I have to go.

11

Hate to go off on a tangent about the actual building here … :wink:

So you’ve got a building with a large, open interior space with a sloped floor, no fixed seating, and a stage? How functional is the stage area? (dressing rooms? lighting? sound system?) Is that worth keeping as space for live performances? Or, as a punk venue, is it so minimal as to not be worth it? If functional, add seats (preferably with some decent legroom) and make it a community performing arts center.

The sloped floor – how big is the slope, and what is the material? how much would it cost (in money and effort) to return the floor to a flattened condition, either by filling in the front or by excavating the back? If you’re keeping the sloped floor but the stage area is a bust, turn it into an indie movie house. So it’s not just another indie movie house, terrace the slope and set up either sofa-comfy seating with tables, or small bistro tables, or a mix of both, and then sell drinks or fancy-ass coffee, plus food of whatever sort you could do without adding a full kitchen (sandwiches, pizza, really good nachos, etc.). Sell it as “all the comforts of home but with the big screen.” Show a mix of recent releases (indie and foreign films), maybe a “classic movie” night with Hitchcock or old musicals, midnight showings of cult favorites on the weekends. Add wi fi and it can be a destination coffee place during the day.

If you can flatten the floor, a non-theater idea (and this was actually the first thing to come to my head): an architectural salvage place. You’d have room for the really big pieces (doors, windows, mantles) and could play off the historicity of the space.

12

History is not something that is carved in stone, it’s an ongoing process. You can’t throw an anchor out of the window and declare that history stops today.

Sounds like a building with an interesting history. It’s interesting (at least to me) not for its stunning and unique architecture or as the site of a significant historical event, because a bunch of different stuff has happened over the years. Why stop this? Looking at the picture, I can easily imagine a restaurant. It would be really easy to decorate it with old movie posters / concert posters / (do they have ice cream posters??). Acknowledge the past, but don’t be slave to it.

13

Ha! Tapioca and twickster, you both ended up going where I was thinking. This occurred to me this morning.

Restoring the interior to a 50s-style movie theater- think velvet curtains-but without the seats. Add bistro tables, maybe booths along the walls. Food: simple, dressed-up Americana (like gourmet meatloaf). Dedicate the lobby to the history of the city’s theaters (there were a bunch at one time, a lot have been demolished) with old pictures, maybe small plaques about those theaters’ histories.

Use as restaurant during the day, indie theater at night, while allowing for live music on weekends (it can’t be hard to clear the place of bistro tables to make room for a show). There is a decent amount of backstage space (not sure exactly how much, I was only back there once) that could be turned into a kitchen easily, I believe.

14

To me the use of the word “historical” is thrown around too much. It should be a building that is “nearly unique” and provides a history lesson, without costing too much.

For instance if you had a building built by say “John Smith,” famous architect but there are 100 other buidings in your state, that one particular building wouldn’t be historical. But let’s say there are 100 other buildings by John Smith but the closest one is 1000 miles away. Well that building isn’t exactly unique but due to the fact it’s so far from others I would say yes it’s worth perserving, 'cause of the distance.

So you need to look at all sorts of factors.

15

Turn it into a bar.

Like a 1940’s style bar.

With swing music at least one night a week.

16

A sloped floor is one step out of the way for an indoor skate park.