Help give a dog a purpose in life

My cousin’s dog’s pup was given to this nice family, and she is now about grown up. Her name is Pinecone.

She comes from working stock on both sides, one side border collie and the other Aussie sheepdog? She has LOTS of energy and wants to be doing something all the time. The adults in the family are beginning to look a little tired.

So, what are good things for the kids (mainly) to teach her to do to give her good occupation?

The kids are about 8 and 10. The dog is smart and willing. She already knows Fetch, Shake-hands, Come, and Sit (mostly–the kids are intermittent about follow-through).

What are more tricks? What are useful things a dog can do? What can a dog do on its own? How would you train a dog, for instance, “Go out in the neighborhood and bring back five dollar bills”? [just as an example]

Please give us Different Things done by Dogs!

I’ve got no advice, but these links might be of interest:

http://www.hut.fi/~mtt/training.html
http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/lib-SpecTrain.htm
http://www.k9events.com/tricks%20and%20games.htm

Agility (where the dog runs through a course filled with obstacles - ramps, bridges, tunnels and so on) might be fun for her.

My dog is part Border Collie too, and we would walk miles every day. Swimming in the summer, snow hikes in the winter - they never tire out.

If the dog knows sit/stay, they can try hide and seek. I used a Kong toy. Put the dog in a sit/stay (I would actually make Bandit face the opposite way, so he couldn’t peek) and then I’d hide the Kong somewhere in my house. Then come back and say “OK” and he would go and find it. It was amazing - the only time I really stumped him was when I hid it in the sleeve of a sweatshirt hanging in my closet. He knew where it was, but he knew he shouldn’t tear it off the hanger to get the toy out of the sleeve.

>> So, what are good things for the kids (mainly) to teach her to do to give her good occupation?

  • Making sushi
  • Computer repair
  • Barking at democrats (or republicans)
  • etc.

Geez. If people only thought a while, before getting a dog. Seriously, from your description, they should give the dog to someone who can take care of it properly. Border collies are not only full of energy, they’re among the smartest dogs in the world. They have great aptitude for learning just about anything suitable for a dog. The thing is, they’re shepherds. If not activated properly, they’ll start herding anything - cars, buses, bikes, kids on skateboards. There is not a lot of information in the OP, but if the family lives in an urban/suburban area, it won’t be long until the dog is the menace for the 'hood, if not activated properly.

I’d say with a Border collie (even a cross, as in this case with another shepherdig race), needs about two hours of hard and serious excersise per day. That’s not just taking it out for a walk, but giving it physical challenges. Agility, as mentioned above, is great stuff, since it gives the mental challenge too.
And then there is the mental challenge. They’re smart and enjoy solving puzzles. So you need to find about two hours worth of mental training to, if not included in the physical training.

This is a great dog. One of the best. But only people who actually own sheep, or people who have a lot of time to spend on the dog, should own one.

If left alone, they could become aggressive over time.

I’m very serious about them giving the dog away. Pretty soon it’s going to be a burden for the whole family - either because it needs so much time to make it a nice dog, or because they haven’t taken the time and it’s become a menace.

I agree with The Gaspode. Buy the dog a herd of sheep.

The Gaspode is right. This dog needs to work for a couple of hours a day, not a few minutes. Serious agility, flyball, or frisbee for a couple of hours a day are the only things I can think of to keep it busy and happy if it’s not herding sheep, and these aren’t things that kids could teach the dog to do.

Since you’re looking for advice, I’ll move this thread to IMHO.

bibliophage
moderator GQ

Just quickly off the top of my head my current dog (old greyhound) and my previous dogs, one collie X learnt the following:

Speak on command (and speak quietly) - useful for sying “please”.
Bow (opposite of sit … front end down, rear in the air)
Hide & seek.
Find, or take item to “name of person”
Take item (usually chewy treat) to bed.
Tidy toys (put them all in one designated place)
Flick treat from nose and catch it (only the collie X could do that one)
Give a hug (front paws on ones shoulders and nose under ones chin)

I’ve raised Border Collies for 12 years. We’re on our third one. All three were purebred dogs from championship lines. Two were from herding stock, and one was from ‘show’ stock. We do not have sheep.

Cared for properly, Border Collies are fantastic dogs. They are gentle, smart, funny, playful, and very hard workers. They are NOT dogs to be ignored. Our third dog, Katie, was rescued from another family that could not handle her. They just tossed her in the back yard and left her there all day and evening. She dug up the yard, barked like a mad thing, etc. They could not house train her. Eventually she wound up back at the breeder’s.

We got her, crate trained her, walk her every day, and our daughter plays with her for several hours a day. She turned into the absolute perfect dog. She doesn’t even want much exercise now, preferring to sleep in the sun and wait for our daughter to come home so they can play.

Some advice for dealing with Border Collies:

Mandatory:

  1. Obedience training. More than exercise, Border Collies need to have their minds stimulated. They are very, very smart. All dogs should go through at least basic obedience, but with Border Collies, it’s a must. And, you’ll have a much more controllable dog that is a joy to have with you, rather than a pain in the butt dog that you wind up leaving at home all the time. You can find a dog obedience school in the yellow pages, or usually at the local pet store.

  2. Find a job for the dog. Border Collies MUST have their brains occupied. If you don’t find them a job, they’ll find one of their own, and you may not like it. Our first Border Collie herded our cats. Whenever we weren’t playing with her, she could be found wherever the cats were, staring at them intently. Our current dog’s job is to look after our daughter. Before she gets home from school, the dog lies with her nose at the glass side window by the front door. As soon as our daughter comes home, Katie follows her everywhere. They play dress-up games, go for walks, ride bicycles (Katie runs alongside), etc.

A good job for a Border Collie is a game like Flyball, or competition agility. Fun for the owners, too.

  1. Dog toys. Border Collies LOVE toys. Those active minds again. We’ve found that the best ones are ‘puzzle’ toys that exercise the dog’s mind. We have a little cloth box that has four squeaky balls inside it. There are holes in the box the dog can get her nose through to try and dig out the balls. Katie can get all four out in about 10 seconds flat now. Another toy we got her has a bunch of squeaky cloth rings on a big cloth bone. The dog has to peel the rings off by grabbing them and working down to the end of the bone and off. She loves that. While I’m at the computer she’ll often come up and drop one of the squeaky balls or rings in my lap, and I’ll throw it for her.

  2. Get a crate. All dogs should be crate trained, but for Border Collies, it’s a must. An unattended Border Collie can be a disaster. Look up ‘crate training’ on the net for details on how to do this. Crate training your dog also makes it much easier to travel with them. When we go to a relative’s house, we can bring the dog overnight because she’s got her crate to sleep in and we don’t have to worry about where to keep her.

Cared for properly, Border Collies are the best dogs in the world. Cared for poorly, they are the worst.

Here are some tips.

Sam Stone. Well, you’re the expert. Note that I said, get sheep or be prepared to spend a lot of time with the dog.

I love Border Collies. They’re nice, fun, smart. Hell maybe it’s the smartest breed of them all. They would love to be circus dogs, all of them. But I don’t have the time or the energy, so my next puppy will be a Boxer. They demand a lot too, but only half of what a BC needs.
I’ve met so many people who buy BC’s without thinking. Quite a few of the dogs end up … I guess the word is disturbed. From lack of stimulation and work, their keen minds start doing things we humans perceive as wrong. In some cases, this has turned into agressive behaviour. The sad part is, mostly, the dog is blamed, not the owner.

[hijack]
Most people don’t realize that most breeds are bred to work with something or another. They buy a dog for its looks, or size, without regard to the mentality. Having a dog that’s yapping in the back yard all day long, 'cause the owner is at work and not caring, is so damned stupid. If you want a pet that doesn’t demand so much from you as the owner - get a cat. Or goldfish.

I can’t agree with all the responses enough! I have Border Collies too; I fact I breed them on a small scale. Mine have clear jobs - they both go to work with me every day and are the mascots for the construction sites that I work at. I run them several miles each day, and they work cattle when the opportunity presents itself. They are an incredible amount of work, but to see the joy as they fly through a pasture is indescribable.

I have run into quite a few people looking for dogs when I was selling puppies who didn’t even have a clue what Border Collies look like, or how big they get. I don’t sell dogs to people who haven’t done their research! In fact, almost all of my dogs are sold as working dogs, and are developing a reputation as a good line in this county. On the rare occasion that I will sell one as a pet, it’s to someone already established as an experienced Border Collie owner, or who has similar dogs and participates in something like agility trials.

That said, I think they can be a great dog for kids to work with, if said kids are willing to devote the time required. Mine are very smart and quick to pick up on new tricks, which pleases the children teaching them. Agility is a ton of fun, and so is flyball. Flyball, as I understand it, is pretty much like the frisbee dog craze that cyclically drives a rush for the breed. It doesn’t have to be formal, and I quite understand that it can be very intimidating to work your way into the existing Border Collie cliques.

Start on a level that doesn’t scare you - take the kids and the dog to some basic training classes. The dog will learn to respect the kids, and the kids will learn how to handle the dog. As they build confidence, you can get into more formal fun. But keep the dog busy!!

On preview, I remembered that your dog is a cross. Which kind of Australian, do you know? The long-haired Australian Shepherd has personality traits very similar to the Border Collies. The shorter-haired Australian Cattle Dogs (AKA Queensland Heelers) tend to be a bit aggressive, in my experience. I don’t care to keep the latter around children, but YMMV. All three breeds are very active.

I have a Border Collie, and I’m a foster mom or Border Collie Rescue. I’ve trained, to date, seven BCs. Border Collies are not all equal. Some are extremely driven while some are not. The one thing that all of my BCs have had in common is a love of toys. BCs are intrigued by stuff that makes noise. Squeaker toys with the squeaker in difficult places will keep them entertained for minutes. Did I mention the short attention span?

The first thing I would do is take the dog to obedience class. Make sure you get your kids involved. The biggest problem I’ve seen with training is everyone in the family has different standards. Bandit, my BC, is always given the same commands with the same expectations. “Lay” always means lay down, not just sometimes, but always. “Down” means stop, not lay down, because that not the way he’s trained.

BCs are born to herd, They’ll herd anything. Please be careful with dog around neighbor kids. Borders are often surrendered to rescue because they nip the neighborhood kids. If your dog doesn’t understand that the kids are master, not prey, they will attempt to herd them. Keep in mind that the herding instinct is simply a modified hunting instinct, and that as the herd separates, the dogs become more aggressive, trying to keep the herd together. This often manifests itself in a BC nipping at kids when they attempt to leave the group. I don’t have children, so Bandit sees them as two-legged sheep. I took him home for Christmas once, and he started to become so nervous with my nieces and nephews leaving the “herd” one-by-one, that I had to keep him at a heal/lay for hours.This was not fun for either of us. Next time, I will leave him home.

Some suggestions for thing to keep your BC busy:
I hide dog bones around the house for him to find. I let him know I’m leaving with a standard command “I’m going bye, bye”. This means he can’t come. So he immediately he runs into a corner to pout and shoot me nasty looks. While he’s pouting, I grab a bunch of bones, and hide them. Since he’s pouting, he won’t follow me, but he knows what I’m doing. Also try fly ball if she’s ball-driven, Frisbee[sup]TM[/sup], or agility. If you have a lot of commitment you can have her Search and Rescue (S&R) trained.

BCs need exercise. I have found that there are few behavioral problems that can’t be traced back to boredom. I am amazed at the low number of people who walk their dogs. I am continually shocked by people who have huge or active dogs in a small back yard an make no attempt to alleviate their energy levels by walking. It’s good for you, and good for the dog.

Also walking is one of the prime training opportunities I have with the dogs. We have a huge empty field by my house. There I do a lot of off-leash training. Bandit is trained with all of the standard herding commands. He also knows “heel”, and “whoa”, None of these could have been trained without off-leash training. It also helped immensely with his S&R certification.

Every dog leaves my house knowing the basic commands, sit, lay, stay, come, no, and whoa. In addition, and for fun, they almost all shake, play dead (far more useful than you’d think) and up.

Good Luck. If for any reason you do decide that the dog is not for you, please contact a Border Collie or Australian Shepard Rescue in your area. We have very good connections, and will find the dog an appropriate home.