10-Q veddy much! I did remember Art Tripp after I posted, but didn’t know about any of these others.
If I remember correctly, much (or most?) of the studio material for Uncle Meat was performed by Frank, Ian, and Artie; Hot Rats is essentially Ian and Frank with guests. So it didn’t surprise me that Frank forever after leaned toward formally trained types.
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“Robert Martin, from Philadelphia, Curtis Institute graduate 1971, let’s hear it for him!”
Too funny! I feel like that guy sometimes.
I struggle with Zappa for this reason - I appreciate his compositions and sense of melody, but I don’t find his material hooks me and motivating to make the further investment. I’ve been following this thread and checking out some links…
For pure guitar awesomeness, the Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar albums cannot be beat. No lyrics, no real song structure, just guitar solos with a backing band. They allow you to bypass the snide social commentary, the stupid scatological and sexual references, etc.
I think FZ was a god among men, but even I don’t particularly enjoy everything he ever recorded.
Anecdote: During the PMRC era (they’re the people who initiated those “Parental Advisory” stickers on record albums), I dated a man who owned a used record store, and one day, a girl who was about 12 years old came in and asked if they sold records with dirty words on them. 
Within arm’s reach were recordings by Prince, Metallica, and Frank Zappa, and he sold her the Zappa album because the words were all plainly spoken.
One of his albums was all-instrumental, and it got a sticker because one of the songs was called “G Spot Tornado”. :rolleyes:
ETA: Around this time, Larry King had a late-night radio show that started after his TV show, and one night, he was interviewing Frank Zappa. I’ll never forget the caller who said that she and her husband invited the Zappas to their wedding. They really didn’t expect a response, but they did get the RSVP card back, and in addition to it being part of their wedding album, they’re pretty sure he actually signed it, so now they have his autograph. Oh, and he declined.
ETA Part Deux: We had a lecture about prostate cancer on the day he died.
zombie story! 
Well, I am part zombie.
He was impressed by his own genius the way a toddler is impressed by his own poops. I think music historians will not be kind.
Why do you think music historians will not be kind? What elements of his music and/or performances that other people like do you think are over-rated and why?
Snowboarder Bo, in your deep admiration, you summed up everything I find off-putting about Zappa:
The thing Zappa had going for him the most (after the “snide social commentary” dried up circa 1980) was that, for his most ardent fans, the fact that the majority of music fans didn’t care for his work was its ultimate mark of quality. “We love it BECAUSE you hate it.” This kind of admiration is no foundation for a lasting legacy. And while I have some enduring regard for Absolutely Free, We’re Only In It For the Money and Sheik Yerbouti, I’d have to say it’s much less than the regard I have for, say. Ray Davies or Brian Wilson and where Zappa’s concerned, it’s rooted in something other than pleasure.
I’m inclined to disagree - I think music historians already tend to be pretty kind, ~ 2 decades after his death.
He had a couple aspects of his public personality I found very slightly off-putting ( or at least kinda sad ) and I don’t care for his entire output, especially some of the sillier sophmoric/scatalogical stuff. But his output was so voluminous and some of his compositional work so interesting ( to me, anyway ), that Onion piece isn’t far off the mark ;).
I was introduced to his stuff as a teen by an adult jazz fanatic who was a friend of the family and as with him it was always the instrumental work that most fascinated me ( not just the guitar solos, but extended pieces like King Kong or Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus/Eat That Question ). I wasn’t really aware that he was one of those sources of cult adoration/scorn until several years later. Reading interviews he usually seemed less ego-driven than matter of the fact about what he was interested in and trying to accomplish. He was even fairly humble about certain topics, like aspects of his guitar playing. But he was assertive, acerbic and a perfectionist, which I guess can come off as arrogant.
But we’ll see, I suppose.
Even if this were true of his “most ardent fans,” which I think is complete bullshit, these are not his only fans.
The thing is, the snide social commentary only occupied maybe 6 years of his life’s works. He always had social commentary, but it was only for a handful of years & albums that he was particularly disdainful. And arguably the majority of his creative output has no lyrics at all.
I don’t think the statement “the majority of music fans didn’t care for his work” can at all be supported as I doubt a majority of music fans have even heard his work. Your swipe at people who do like his work would be similarly difficult to support with any facts.
You know what is a foundation for a lasting legacy? Having orchestras all over the world performing your work and having music schools the world over teaching their best, most advanced students to play your compositions because they are examples of complexity in all facets of music. Also, having the phrase “former Frank Zappa band member” her recognized all over the planet as shorthand for “really fucking talented & disciplined musician”.
If you don’t like his music, that’s fine; no one will force you too listen. But to denigrate his fans as clueless anti-establishment jerks and to ignore the vast number of musicians, composers and conductors the world over who find his compositions thoughtful, thought-provoking and highly complex (but still executable) speaks volumes more about your own music knowledge and attitudes that it does about the person and people you are talking about, IMO.
The music I like best favors “pleasurable experience” over “technical brilliance.” If it lacks the former, the latter isn’t particularly relevant. Obviously, YMMV. I don’t like Yngvie Malmsteen either, although I don’t dispute his technical brilliance.
We’ve had this argument before, Bo. My personal tastes aren’t arrived at by democratic consensus and even if they were, I’m pretty confident an even vaster number of musicians, composers and conductors find him… not without merit, just a lot lower on their list of vital musicians than he apparently is on yours. And by the way, I can’t imagine a worse defense of any musician than “If you don’t like his music, that’s fine; no one will force you too listen.” It kind of implies that I’d enjoy him more at gunpoint.
I’m not arguing with you over your personal tastes and I never said or implied that they should be arrived at by democratic consensus; I have no idea where you even got that notion.
Nothing in my post talked about how high on my list of vital musicians Frank Zappa is; I only mentioned that a huge number of other people, people who perform and write music for a living think very highly of him. You’re confidence aside, I doubt you can find any evidence anywhere to back up your assertion. My point was that the notion that Zappa was a very talented composer and a guy who made music that people liked because it’s good music can be backed up by evidence, much of which comes from people more knowledgable about the field that you seem to be.
And my statement “If you don’t like his music, that’s fine; no one will force you too listen” wasn’t at all a defense of Zappa, it was simple acknowledgement that people’s tastes vary.
You know the saying…Zappa Rules!..that said, sometimes his noodleing guitar solos could give you a headache… (like Neil Young)…but I have always been a fond listener. To the OP I would suggest sampling a bit of everything, both early works and late, as you never know what you might like. There an be some real gems in the middle of absolute (to my mind) junky stuff…(perhaps due to his perpetual fights with his labels?
Hot Rats was my first introduction, and I promptly dropped listening to everything at the time, which was about 1970. Amongst the psychedelic crowd, he had a strong following, for those who the Great Dead, were not adequate.
Frank Zappa actually gave me a bridge to discuss music with my classical music loving parents. They didnt particularly care for the louder works, but like some of his quieter jazz pieces.
minor highjack
my father called the Rolling Stones…“the Vomit Five”…but he did appreciate the Beatles in his later years…)
I believe those were his most popular albums, and IMHO are the most accessible. Folks above mention Zappa’s scatological lyrics, but Overnite Sensation is amusing in that its main theme is a sarcastic snipe at people who buy his albums because they like the slime. He’s criticizing most of his fans for the reasons they buy his albums. I just gotta love that.
While Zappa is an admirable guitarist, he’s not what most guitar enthusiasts would call a guitar god. He could play fun hot blues/rock solos all day, and he used the instrument well in his compositions, but there’s no sophistication of articulation, tone, technique, dynamics, etc. He usually gigged with serious guitarists for that stuf
I saw him once at Cobo Hall in Detroit, around 1981. The crowd ate up his interminable (and boring) blazing solos and booed when he picked up his baton, sleeping through the most intricate and excruciatingly beautiful sections, so he gave them what he wanted, much to my disappointment. The crowd was warned to stop throwing stuff, but a few minutes into the first encore someone did, and he ended the show right there. Goodbye, Detroit!
I remember reading once that he dashed out two or three albums as fast as possible, just to get out of a contract and join a new label (or start his own). Does anyone know whether this is true, and if so, which albums?
I’m a Zappa fan, but I have never liked his guitar playing. To me it sounds sloppy, hurried, and soulless.
To be honest (and IMO) I don’t think Zappa was a good musician, and I was happy when he hired pros to do the job. I like Zappa for his *other *talents… writing & composition, arrangements, wit & intelligence, and his eye for (true) musicianship.