So, the band and I need to buy a new bus. Or a van. Hence, my need for your help.
We’re waffling between a late 80s Econoline (or something similar) and a Metrotrans 20, which is a 31 passenger people-moving beast we’d take seats out of.
Basically, the big issues for us (and almost everyone, I’d assume) are safety and price. The Econoline is cheaper but not incredibly safe. But then again, what vans are? I’ve found a ton of information on your average, run of the mill vans, but not this monster. Here are some details—ANY help, especially on safety and reliability issues, would be incredibly appreciated:
If we rip out some seats & install a bed or two, it becomes an RV (since it only has two axels) and we can get away with a normal license in California. Good thought though.
Sorry about the link. I’ll see if I can host that image somewhere & repost it.
IIRC the upgraded licence is in part demanded by the number of passengers being carried. If you are 2 axle and <=8 passengers you may be ok. You’re in a world of hurt if you invite a few groupies on board for a little mobile party and get pulled over.
An Econoline 350 will seat 15, or 12 with room for a small band’s worth of gear in the back, or 8 with a more reasonable-sized band’s worth of gear; it can also tow up to 8,000 pounds with the right hitch & towing package. So, you could get a 4x8’ Haulmark trailer and carry all of your band’s stuff in that, with seating for lots (4 benches and a reclining passenger seat means 5 people can sleep while somebody drives). Expect to get 10-15 mpg.
I don’t know where you got the “not safe” part; my van got broadsided by a jeep a couple weeks ago and sustained $12,000 worth of damage, and I drove away from the accident, so it counted as minor damage as far as the insurance company was concerned…
astro: Thanks for the link. That’s exactly like the one in question, except I think the front is a little more…snub-nosed. drachillix: I’ll keep that in mind. If we get pulled over, the extra folks will get tucked under the seats. Ethilrist: The “not safe” part came from a link that said the van had a 20-30% chance of flipping in an accident, if knocked off the road. Your anecdote puts me at ease—ESPECIALLY since you were broadsided. Sorry about that, by the way. I was driving the Jeep.
You should also check the regs. of states you’ll be traveling in, each will have a web site.
A diesel engine is much more durable and more economical to operate, but also more expensive to repair. You should have any vehicle inspected by a qualified shop and/or mechanic before buying. This may cost a hundred or so but it’s money well spent, even if it saves you from buying a certain vehicle.
You should also compare the cost of liability insurance for various vehicles, you may be surprised at the results.
Thanks, thus far. Here’s the big issue right now: I’d love to find some safety specs on large MetroTrans buses but have yet to find any. If we’re dropping the sort of money we are, we need to make sure that a bus, while loaded with some seriously heavy gear, will not be prone to tipping. 15 passenger vans certainly are, the smaller vans, a little less so. Any help would save my ass…perhaps literally.
What many people fail to comprehend is that you cannot drive an SUV, large van, or other high profile vehicle, the same as you would a car. The most obvious difference is that the center of gravity is considerably higher, making rollovers more likely. Many of these vehicles have a significant overhang behind the rear wheels. Loading this overhang area dramatically changes the weight distribution and effects handling, another contributor to rollovers.
If that curve or exit ramp is marked at 30mph, don not try to take it a 40.
We are actually very safe drivers, especially with our livlihood piled in the back of the van. We had an '82 Dodge MiniRam and took our corners nice & slow & stayed safe. I’m just trying to see how much safer a bus like the one above is, since it’s signifigantly more expensive.
With the pictured RV, you’re approaching school bus territory.
My observation of school buses in accidents is that the occupants are sometimes injured, but never killed. The weight is up far enough that getting hit by 95% of vehicles on the road will not tip you, assuming you weren’t already pressing the limits of your performance when you got in trouble. You’re dramatically safer in a heavier vehicle than a ligher one.
I’ve gotta’ say, though, I’d look at this from a money/comfort perspective. If your band is struggling to make ends meet or turn a (Og forbid) profit, you’ll likely find you do much better with the smallest vehicle you can stand and keep legal re: weight limits, etc.
Consider separating instruments from musicians with something solid, though. It REALLY sucks to have something heavy hit you in the back of the head in an accident. This might be a reason to consider using a trailer or installing a work-van style cage.
I believe that comes from the 15-passenger vans having load behind the rear axle. At least, that’s how I remember it from several years ago when there was a slew of news stories about college students being killed in those 15-passenger vans.
I think the diesel bus would be more comfortable, more adaptable, safer and more economical in the long run, but there are a lot of variables. How much do you travel, is the organization stable for the long run. The condition of the vehicle is very important. A diesel as you describe can run for 5-6 hundred thousand if properly maintained, but a rebuild could run you 6-8 thousand and that’s just the engine. You need to know the condition of the running gear, suspension, brakes, exhaust system, etc.
The bus body would give you options for bunks, a small galley, chemical toilet, tables, etc.
If you’re on the road most of the year the bus would likely be the best choice, but if your talking weekends and 50 to 150 miles a week, the I’d go w/ the van.
If you can find a truck/SUV or a van with enough room for a mattress in the back and at least two rows of seats (including the driver’s row); that plus a u-Haul thing on the back might not be a bad choice.
A friend got a great deal on a full-size school bus (which he then retrofitted w/ bunk beds & a kitchen) by finding someone who specialized in vehicles that the school board would no longer legally use. They have some arbitrary number of years (depends on your state) that they will no longer assume liability over the bus so for their purposes the vehicles are useless and so perfectly good vehicles are sold cheap b/c theres not a big market.
We’re avoiding a trailer for safety reasons. I’ve heard some horror stories about those things, namely the fact that wind blows a trailer seperately & can make the car towing it squirrelly.
Also, all jokes made about the band having no money are cliche…and EXACTLY right. Dammit.
We’re also aggressively avoiding the 15-passenger van for it’s roll-over potential. 8 seat vans seem much safer (you all mentioned the wheel base thing, which, according to research everywhere is the biggest safety hazard on any vehicle we’d be thinking about), and the bus…well…it’s expensive.
Be sure to check the insurance first before any purchase. I have heard some companies will not insure the larger passenger vans because of the high accident rates ( not sure if there are more accidents per vehicle or just more passengers per van that makes it high). But you don’t want to buy it and then find out you can’t insure it.