Geek child #2 has decided to take up strings, so she needs a violin. Ye ol local music store wants $800. Ebay seems to have them for about $100. Now I know ye ol local music store is aka ripoff central (at least the one around here is), but are the $100 ones any good?
I play the guitar, so I know a little about musical instruments, but I don’t know what makes a good one vs. a bad one. What should I be looking for? What are the generally accepted “good” brand names and what are the “cheap” ones?
Keep in mind she’s 10 years old. She’s tall for her age, and the music teacher said she can use a full size (which I assume is 4/4?).
I’m assuming I need violin, bow, and case. Anything else I need?
I’m afraid that link is full of bad advice, or at least very outdated advice.
(I’m going to use UK prices here, 'cause that’s what I know)
The £100 outfits are suitable for a beginner. For the first year or two, there’s do difference whatsoever between playing on one of these and playing on a more expensive one. It’s true they used to be firewood - but they’ve vastly improved, particularly the Chinese ones.
However, don’t get one that’s been set up by a regular music shop. You need a violin specialist (sometimes, not always, known as luthiers) to fit the bridge, check the pegs are working properly, etc. This is about half an hour’s work for them, which will be reflected in the price - ie the same outfit will cost more from a specialist than from an all-purpose shop. Ones off eBay will not be set up, so you’ll be stuck trying to find somebody to do this.
Another option which some (but not many) violin dealers will offer is to fit a better-quality bridge and strings to this basic violin, for about £50. If they offer this, take them up on it. It’s worth it.
After a couple of years, should she want to continue, the limitations of this violin will start to be apparent, you’ll then need to look at the £500-1500 price range. But that’s a long way off.
Other things I’d qubble on that site:
If they don’t let you do this, walk away. It’d be like trusting a second-hand car dealer who won’t let you open the bonnet or take a test drive.
This is all true. However, an instrument may have been with a dealer for a year or two, and so will need many months to play in once again.
They should not charge for this. Again, if they do, they’re not offering you good service, they’re just out for a quick buck. It takes them two minutes to look at the instrument and see what needs doing. Of course, expect to pay for anything more, such as a written quotation.
An instrument should never be shipped fully set up. Any firm that considers doing so is irresponsible.
The bass viol isn’t a member of the violin family - it’s a viol!! (And the double bass isn’t a bass viol, which is what they seem to mean, but it’s also not part of the violin family)
My suggestion would be to rent an instrument until you’re fairly sure that 1) she’s not growing anymore, 2) she can pick out an instrument based on tone, “feel,” etc. (she will need to have played for a while in order to do this), and 3) she wants to stick with it. Anything worth playing will probably be a little more than you would like to spend for something she might give up after a year.
I would say avoid the e-Bay violins. Do not buy anything you cannot play first.
You need violin, bow, and case, definitely. Also most likely a shoulder pad (This is my preferred shoulder pad, but she should try out many to see which feels best), although one is not completely necessary (I would recommend using a shoulder pad unless she has a private teacher who instructs her not to use one). Rosin is always necessary. An extra set of strings is also helpful; you hate to be caught with a broken string and no replacements. As for strings, at her level I would recommend Dominant–no reason to get anything more expensive. A wire stand is always good, so she can keep up with her practicing.
If you’re really interested in buying an instrument instead of just renting, I would look into smaller shops. I don’t know of any violin “brand names” really–that isn’t to say that none exist, just that in my 10 years of playing I haven’t encountered any. I bought my violin from a man who made instruments in his shop. It cost about $1000 for just the instrument. I’ve been happy with it so far. My bow cost about $200, and my case $100.
That’s all I can think of for now; if I think of anything else, I’ll be sure to post.
Our daughter has been taking Violin for a year now. She’s 7. We got her a violin with case for about $350, and her teacher was very impressed with it. Said it played very well.
Is your daugter still growing? If so, you might want to either rent, or find a music store that has a trade-in program. My daughter is on her 3rd violin already. She started with a 1/8 size, moved up to a 1/4 in about six months, and now she’s up to a 1/2 size. Our music store specializes in stringed instruments, and they have a trade-up program for children’s violins - you can take the old one back and get a new one for a trade-in fee of $100. That’s not a bad deal, since a rental costs $25/mo.
From what I’ve learned, I’d say a beginning student can get a fine violin for $350 CDN (maybe $250 US). Once the student gets a little more advanced, you might want to move up to a violin closer to the $1000 range. After that, I don’t think there’s any need to spend more unless the child is playing very seriously (as in, heading for the pros or something).
But of course, everyone’s preference is different. The same can be said for guitars, yet I’m just an amateur and I lust after several $3000 guitars. I play a Saxophone, and I’d love to dump my cheapo student model and get a nice Selmer or something. So your mileage may vary.
I’d say stay away from the cheap $100 eBay specials, and don’t invest in a $1000 violin for a beginning student. Somewhere in the middle is about right.
You only rent items which depreciate rapidly. A new violin, like the ones mentioned, will be worth little secondhand, but obviously isn’t worth renting either. A £1000 instrument should not depreciate much. So if you can expect (pessimistically) a £500 trade-in value after two years, you need to find a rental deal for under £20/month. Unlikely.
Both the music stores here in Decatur have well-established rent-to-own school band instrument programs, which are a lifesaver if your kid isn’t quite sure she wants to play the violin. When the amount you’ve paid equals the purchase price, it’s yours. This gives you about six months for her to futz around with it and find out whether she really wants to do it, and saves you from having spent weeks looking for The Perfect Violin[sup]TM[/sup], only to be stuck with it when she gets tired of “violin” along about the middle of November.
And yeah, I’ll admit that as far as quality goes, their rent-to-own violins are no world-beaters, but for a fifth-grader who is interested in exploring “violin”, they’re perfectly adequate, and you can trade up at any time. They just fill out another form and give you another, better fiddle (also under their rent-to-own program).
call me crazy, but because she’s just starting out you might want to look into renting the instrument until you are sure it is something she will want to continue.
I too was a tall sized 4th grader and started on a fullsize. The other thing needed other than case, instrument and bow is a cube of violin rosin. If you opt to buy it out right, I personally wouldn’t spend too much money on that first fiddle because it’s apt to get nicked a bit. An extra set of strings comes in handy just to have on hand or at the very least the A & E strings. Ear plugs are good too … for you. It’s kinda painful at first.
Take into consideration the weight of the case … those things can get heavy carrying them around!
All starter outfits nowadays come with a decent light polystyrene case.
(And just to alleviate common concerns: no, polystyrene cases aren’t flimsy compared to wood - if anything they’re stronger. And less likely to poke holes in the violin if they get squashed (I’ve seen the aftermath). They also are better insulators, protecting the instrument further against changes in temperature.)
For the ‘better’ violinist, getting a case that perfectly suits one’s needs is almost as difficult as getting the violin in the first place. But again, this is something to worry about in the future
I really don’t want to rent the thing. Ye ol local ripoff shop up here has their cheapest violin for about $450. If you rent it you end up paying about $800 spread out over 3 years. At the end of this you can apply 70 percent of the original price towards the price of a new more expensive violin, which means after they soak you for $800 they’ll generously let you trade it in for about $300.
I’m not too concerned about setting the instrument up. I own several electric, acoustic, and bass guitars, and they all have similar adjustments to what is on a violin (setting up the bridge, fine tuning the strings) and I’ve always set up my own guitars. I’ll be very surprised if I can’t figure out how to set up the violin, once I figure out how to play it. But if all else fails, I’ll take it in to get set up.
I’ll add rosin, extra strings, and a music stand to my list. I used to have a music stand. I wonder whatever happened to it. Maybe I’ll get lucky and find it in the attic.
I got a perfectly lovely violin at a pawn shop a year ago, for only $100. It was full size, and all it needed was new strings and hair for the bow. I got the instrument, case, bow, and rosin for that price. Check the pawn shops.
A violin is very different. Setting one up is fundamentally different to a guitar. For fitting a bridge, for example, we’re talking about intricate carpentry, and also a good knowledge of violin playing in general. Even getting the bridges of a new chinese kit into a playable state takes genuine specialist work. It’s not something that you’ll be able to figure out as you go along. (I’m not working for the trade …but I have done, and I’ve seen some of the horrors of ‘home modifications’. Particularly, I’m afraid to say, by guitarists.)
Intricate carpentry??? :dubious: What the heck do you have to do to set one of these beasts up? Now you’ve got me curious. (You’ve also convinced me to let the shop do it, but I still want to know)
I wouldn’t trust one from a pawn shop unless I could play it first, and I can’t play a violin. If she sticks with this for a few years and needs a better violin later that may be an option, but right now neither of us has the skills to make it do much except annoy the local cats.
To fit a top-quality violin, you’re talking about carving at the feet of the bridge with a scalpel blade until the concave feet of the bridge exactly meet the curve of the violin. Then there’s reducing the bulk of the wood, some of which is chisel-work, but much of it again with the scalpel. And the fine finishing after that.
To fit a bog-standard bridge, like the original question of this thread was talking about, not all this is necessary. But you still need to do the reduction of the sheer bulk of wood, and also to ensue it’s aligned correctly for the strings (something else also unique to each instrument).
…but I have done, and I’ve seen some of the horrors of ‘home modifications’. Particularly, I’m afraid to say, by guitarists.)